Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You know all that range should have some downsides. Poor damage application is one of them.

And target painters aren't JUST for missiles. Can we get a target painter bonus on the other BS 's too then?

That a double plated, mwding battleship can align and warp off before they land is probably enough of a disadvantage tbh.

And the low paper dps

As well as the application you mentioned.


In fact, the ONLY thing going for them is range.

The two areas I want to chime in on are
A)
I'm interpreting 45000+90000 as 45km optimal, 90km falloff, which should translate into
45km: full effect
135km: 50% effect
225km: approaching 0%

nvm, click this link to see a much better repesentation
http://i.imgur.com/aAiEGQI.png

On a side note... some modules when you mouse over them have a "max range" and an "optimal range" - outside the max range I don't think the module can even be activated, whilst other modules have an optimal + a falloff, which can be activate as long as you have a lock iirc.

TL;DR - you're still getting some oomf out of your target painter at 170km. Not much though.

B)
Missiles seems to have atrocious application in general, as far as I know a target painter is almost mandatory on missile boats compared to non-missile boats.
A counterpoint to this is missiles have a higher dps which a poorer application scales down to equivalent applied dps with turrets... but I'd much rather have the application increased and the dps toned down so it's much easier to compare them.
Assuming the raw dps is good in the first place.

TL;DR - I'd rather have missile application in general fixxed as opposed to this unique situation

A pretty easy fix to this is to get a trial account set up (or your cheap alt) with a rigged Vigil. The total TP range on a vigil with t1 rigs goes out to a whopping 196km, and while a fair bit of that is in falloff, if you have multiple target painters staggered on the target, you can still be fairly effective. Does this solve your issue?

Truth be told nothing engages at 270km these days due to other reasons.

Everything has a tradeoff, and most trade offs have a method of mitigation for another trade off.

Missiles already have it good comparatively at ranges 100km+ as turrets have to deal with the same falloff mechanics as the TPs, and have much shorter engagement envelopes in general. It sets up turrets being unable to compete at range, because of the now much increased application of missiles at extreme range.

As for adding free bonuses to ships, -1. While I can't see any use for it other than MJD sniping, it is a bad precedent.

Thats strange that its harder to get the same amount of damge at a high range.
All other weapons need different types of ammo to get such a range and loose more dmg than you missles, deal with it.

-1

other weapons have more then 1 damage type and damages change based on how the other ship is flying.
IE if i gun snipe at a ship like the interceptor that was doing 5kms a second at me, my 2 tempest guns 1 hit it....missiles on the other hand will not do that ever if the ship is moving.

missiles need a buff to make people want to use them past a tengu/drake fight which actually got the heavies nerfed from 70kms to under 60kms causing trouble for the beginner mission runners and missiles heavy use comes in to pve since the AI upgrades as even i experience increased EW usage by rats compared to what they used to do.
Ive left guns boats for missions alone if ive had to go against sansha with their tracking disrupters
and go with FOF cruise missile for anything that heavy jams or sensor dampners
and left drones alone for missions for anything that isnt rouge drones (as they seem to have not have gotten the AI changes that cause them to have the antidrone syndrome)

it's funny you should say it's a carebear problem, considering this proves the point of missiles not being used for long range engagements, outside of PVE.

The problem with missiles isn't an easy fix.

First- missiles can be evaded, or destroyed. Imagine in pvp if you used a Golem, which only has 4 launcher hard points. If 1 of them gets destroyed that is 25% of the ships missile dps. I propose for ships that get an increase by damage (but fewer launches- prime example a Golem), get an increase of their respective system's missile's hp. The hp would be based off what the effective launcher's is considered (so for the Golem it would be double missile hp). That would allow 'effective' launchers to be harder to destroy and harder to negate a portion of their dps and up until this is implemented they are penalized for being counterable for less (uses less system resources using their straight up missile damage).

Second- Delayed damage. Yes, I strongly believe it needs to be delayed, but the problem is when 'sniping' out to 100 km even, a target can warp off! Yes, they get perfect damage selection but that doesn't carry vary far if you can't hit your targets. I propose that the acceleration rate for missile based systems be doubled, flight time halved, max speed doubled. That would effectively cut the travel time in half, but not make the damage instant. The new missile ships (Garmur, Orthrus, and Barghest) seem to be the concept that I'm meaning, although they'd retain their bonus and get even faster. This should greatly increase missile based systems use in pvp, since it will allow FCS to easily count on their damage if it isn't countered.


An Orthrus wtih 1 target painter is capable of doing more dps to a Garmur than a Raven with a target painter. Missiles do less damage to ships and actually need the target painter's effect to apply full damage to same class ships. Never mind the precision missiles don't increase the damage enough for lower class ships. And the issue of range is primarily saying if the target painter doesn't work for a cycle you'll face reduced dps. By giving each missile battleship the bonuses to target painters optimal within 100 km, that will allow more interesting options.