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Pros and Cons of Suicide ganking.
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Tribalic One
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-12-16 22:08:04 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.

I think that is were the balance is lacking.


Every carebear has the ability to sharpen its teeth and defend its self. Also, the shear number of Bear's to Pirate's could make up for the lack of PvP experience. There just is no organization in the carebear realm, IMO.

So it's not game mechanics that have the prey at a disadvantage, it's the "deer in the headlights" stance the prey takes.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-12-16 22:11:37 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.

I think that is were the balance is lacking.


The bears right the balance by fleeting up and defending each other. Also simply not AFK mining, watching local, gathering intel on gankers and paying attention to where they are would be a step in the right direction. You can't really stop someone determined to kill you regardless of cost but you can use the same resources he uses to find you to instead find him. Also would it really kill the bears to fit a few frigs and give these guys something to think about. Frigs are cheap and enough of them could really do something.

Also, whats stopping the bears from getting more organized into bigger corps, larger alliances, and war deccing the Pirate Corps behind all of this? Is it fear? Like I said before, Frigs are cheap.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Mag's
Azn Empire
#23 - 2011-12-16 22:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged?


Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing?

I guess it depends who you talk to and what your idea of "game" is.
You didn't answer, as to why you think it should be discouraged?

Also it is CCP sanctioned, it is not griefing and therefore normal game play.

Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.

I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Generals4
#24 - 2011-12-16 22:14:49 UTC
Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.

Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail
Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo

Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-16 22:16:36 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.

Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail
Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo

Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies.


You and I Sirrah, we see the same things I think. Lol
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-16 22:18:17 UTC
Ahh every day, another thread about the same thing, suicide ganking isn't going anywhere, It isn't 'griefing'.. .and if CCP didn't approve of it.. why the hell did they give us Battlecruisers with Battleship sized weapons? Oh- you thought they were for running missions Roll



Mag's wrote:
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.

I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?


They are still pod killable, some people just havn't sorted out what the color 'red' means in EvE yet. You can shoot their ships, you can shoot their pods. Regular people that go GCC with about -5 sec status can have their ships shot at by anyone near by, but their pod is still protected by CONCORD.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#27 - 2011-12-16 22:22:01 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Ahh every day, another thread about the same thing, suicide ganking isn't going anywhere, It isn't 'griefing'.. .and if CCP didn't approve of it.. why the hell did they give us Battlecruisers with Battleship sized weapons? Oh- you thought they were for running missions Roll



Mag's wrote:
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.

I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?


They are still pod killable, some people just havn't sorted out what the color 'red' means in EvE yet. You can shoot their ships, you can shoot their pods. Regular people that go GCC with about -5 sec status can have their ships shot at by anyone near by, but their pod is still protected by CONCORD.
Ahh so it's just another person complaining about game mechanics, they have absolutely no clue about. Thanks bud. Cool

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
#28 - 2011-12-16 22:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ninyania alCladdyth
.
Generals4
#29 - 2011-12-16 22:23:35 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Generals4 wrote:
Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.

Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail
Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo

Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies.


You and I Sirrah, we see the same things I think. Lol


Yeah, i don't see why people complain that much, this is a sandbox, sandboxes are supposed to have few rules, if people find ingenious ways to grief or protect themselves, more power to them. There are equally as many ways to get back at them anyway.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Atticus Fynch
#30 - 2011-12-16 22:25:18 UTC
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
.


Im not too clear on this either.Ugh

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-16 22:25:37 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.

I think that is were the balance is lacking.


The 'prey' could always tank their hulks, or not cart around 1b of stuff in a T1 Industrial, and there have been plenty of pirate tears threads. For example: Whaa Whaa why don't I get insurance from my ship being destroyed by Concord anymore!?!?

Assuming by pirate tears you mean ganker tears


ACE, popping someone for a case of stupid is not ganking, it would be a sin to do anything else becuase some lessons are expensive. Those are the best kind in my opinion. I only have issue with jerks being jerks for the sake of being jerks.

Big smile
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Mag's
Azn Empire
#32 - 2011-12-16 22:28:59 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
.


Im not too clear on this either.Ugh
We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-16 23:05:57 UTC
Mag's wrote:
We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.


We still fall victim to that 'landing short' phenomenon though...
How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
#34 - 2011-12-16 23:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: How2FoldSoup
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.

I think that is were the balance is lacking.


Lucky for us Eve is a sandbox. Surely this does not mean you can become whatever you want. Life goes on and so the "predators" are safe forever.

oh wait...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2011-12-16 23:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Generals4 wrote:
Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates".
No, you're confusing two rather different things here.

The problem with allowing decshields is that it renders certain highsec property completely safe that shouldn't be safe — most notably POSes — which means that, through poorly thought-through (and completely unnecessary) policy, they've broken a couple of rather important gameplay mechanics and as a result broken a part of the industrial economy.

Pirates don't give a crap about wardecs; proper industrialists do.
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided.
That's just because the carebears are too ignorant about basic game mechanics to know and understand the myriad of ways they have at their disposal to generate pirate tears (…on top of being completely unwilling to actually extract them). Their choices and lack of knowledge and ambition is not a problem with the game mechanics.
Fallenlassen
#36 - 2011-12-16 23:23:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Pirates don't give a crap about wardecs; proper industrialists do.


and high sec mercenaries, griefers, eve-uni.. what?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2011-12-16 23:28:03 UTC
Fallenlassen wrote:
and high sec mercenaries, griefers, eve-uni.. what?
Mercenaries don't care about POSes — their employers (who wanted that POS killed) do.
Griefers don't care about POSes (too much work, no grief, not worth getting banned over).
EVE Uni might like it, but for the exact reason it's a very bad change.
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#38 - 2011-12-17 01:06:29 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.

Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.

The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.


Your thoughts/ideas?


Pros to suicide gank?

I have no idea, to me it doesn't even look fun.

I think you have to be like a 14 year old boy, to me it has that "smash stuff" aura that little boys like about the age right before they discover girls.

I guess if a person is bored?
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#39 - 2011-12-17 01:13:41 UTC
Of the few HiSec gankers I know a minority are true pirate and do it for profit, they are well organised and focused on choosing a good profitable target the rest tend to be bored or a bit to timid to take a fight with a target that shoots back.

Make of that what you will.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Jita Alt666
#40 - 2011-12-17 01:17:04 UTC
Opertone wrote:
IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.

Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.


That is essentially the same as running missions or killing NPC pirates to lift sec status. The issue is that clever players have figured out how to raise their sec status quicker than CCP originally intended for it to rise.