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MJD - Running L4s
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SeenButNotHeard
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-08 23:19:51 UTC
Hi all

Been away for a very long time. I am looking to use a Micro Jump Drive on my ship. I've been reading about it a lot but I am unsure whether NPC players scram hard enough to stop me using it. In case they get close enough though hopefully not!

Can they scram my ass?

Thanks!
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-12-08 23:22:15 UTC
They only disrupt.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
SeenButNotHeard
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-08 23:24:05 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
They only disrupt.


So even if they get in close I can pull my drones and **** off?
Paranoid Loyd
#4 - 2014-12-08 23:28:59 UTC
Well yes, but the idea with the MJD is they never get close. Blink

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
SeenButNotHeard
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-12-08 23:30:18 UTC
I understand. Thanks. I was just checking that if I made a mistake I wouldn't be completely minced and could get out. Big smile
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-12-09 02:00:55 UTC
The message will say scrammed but standard level IV npcs only disrupt. You can get away with minimal tank on a MJD boat in level IVs though NPCs with cruise missiles can still be an issue.


(level V and burner NPCs are a different matter I believe)
Paranoid Loyd
#7 - 2014-12-09 02:07:06 UTC
SeenButNotHeard wrote:
I understand. Thanks. I was just checking that if I made a mistake I wouldn't be completely minced and could get out. Big smile
Mmmmmmm, minced pod pilot, a delicacy best served cold. Twisted

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2014-12-09 04:28:31 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Well yes, but the idea with the MJD is they never get close. Blink


the exact wrong use of a MJD. Okay if you are a new player starting out, or using an afk sentry/fof missile boat they are great tools. but if you want to be any degree of efficient then jumping to 100km away from the rats is almost the exactly wrong way to go about it in any ship. With Missile boats you have to deal with increased chance of defenders hitting, extra volley counting, and the possibility of extra volleys just flying off into space and not hitting anything. With gunboats this means using low damage long range ammo. Luckily there are a few missions where the MJD is perfect for getting close with the NPCs, so you can use short range guns and/or high damage ammo.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#9 - 2014-12-09 05:00:43 UTC
Optimal range for Garde II sentry drones with a couple of OTLs is about 60km, depending on ship and skills. A good use for MJD on such a drone boat is to MJD at an angle from the targets that will bring you to just over 60km range.

For a Raven Navy Issue or Golem the extra seconds of missiles in flight means time that your TPs are not illuminating the next target. Of course you can launch the missiles now, wait for the previous salvo to destroy their target, and have the TP illuminating the new target by the time the missiles arrive, but that way lies madness.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Elena Morin'staal
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-12-09 09:03:54 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Well yes, but the idea with the MJD is they never get close. Blink


the exact wrong use of a MJD. Okay if you are a new player starting out, or using an afk sentry/fof missile boat they are great tools. but if you want to be any degree of efficient then jumping to 100km away from the rats is almost the exactly wrong way to go about it in any ship. With Missile boats you have to deal with increased chance of defenders hitting, extra volley counting, and the possibility of extra volleys just flying off into space and not hitting anything. With gunboats this means using low damage long range ammo. Luckily there are a few missions where the MJD is perfect for getting close with the NPCs, so you can use short range guns and/or high damage ammo.



I've always used it to jump right into the middle of the rats, go bastion up and slaughter everything around me :D
Major Xadi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-12-09 16:57:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Xadi
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Well yes, but the idea with the MJD is they never get close. Blink


the exact wrong use of a MJD. Okay if you are a new player starting out, or using an afk sentry/fof missile boat they are great tools. but if you want to be any degree of efficient then jumping to 100km away from the rats is almost the exactly wrong way to go about it in any ship. With Missile boats you have to deal with increased chance of defenders hitting, extra volley counting, and the possibility of extra volleys just flying off into space and not hitting anything. With gunboats this means using low damage long range ammo. Luckily there are a few missions where the MJD is perfect for getting close with the NPCs, so you can use short range guns and/or high damage ammo.



Maybe I always did it wrong then. I mostly do L4 in a marauder now, but when I was first doing L4 in Amarr space I was dealing with Sansha tracking disrupters and didn't have great skills yet. The MJD let me get range on the TD cruisers where i could pop them before they screwed my tracking. Sansha cruisers can TD from about 82 km out. If you're in close and a new wave spawns, you're going to get 2-4 TDs on you quick. If you have pulse fitted, you can't hit anything. You will be picked apart in some of the more difficult missions. It's not as efficient as dealing close range damage, but it's better than dealing no damage at all due to ewar.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-12-09 20:41:58 UTC
bouncers? check
cruise missiles? check
not counting volleys because ammo is cheap? check

MJD'ing to 100KM away and blowing stuff up as it comes to you? priceless

That said, RHML+Rattlesnake+Gecko = way more fun.
Paranoid Loyd
#13 - 2014-12-09 21:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Major Xadi wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Well yes, but the idea with the MJD is they never get close. Blink


the exact wrong use of a MJD. Okay if you are a new player starting out, or using an afk sentry/fof missile boat they are great tools. but if you want to be any degree of efficient then jumping to 100km away from the rats is almost the exactly wrong way to go about it in any ship. With Missile boats you have to deal with increased chance of defenders hitting, extra volley counting, and the possibility of extra volleys just flying off into space and not hitting anything. With gunboats this means using low damage long range ammo. Luckily there are a few missions where the MJD is perfect for getting close with the NPCs, so you can use short range guns and/or high damage ammo.



Maybe I always did it wrong then. I mostly do L4 in a marauder now, but when I was first doing L4 in Amarr space I was dealing with Sansha tracking disrupters and didn't have great skills yet. The MJD let me get range on the TD cruisers where i could pop them before they screwed my tracking. Sansha cruisers can TD from about 82 km out. If you're in close and a new wave spawns, you're going to get 2-4 TDs on you quick. If you have pulse fitted, you can't hit anything. You will be picked apart in some of the more difficult missions. It's not as efficient as dealing close range damage, but it's better than dealing no damage at all due to ewar.

There are many different ways to run missions, not to mention, different missions require different tactics. Your experience and desire to be efficient shape your tactics. Chainsaw is very experienced and knows how do use the MJD offensively to his advantage. Most, especially when just starting out or returning from a break are simply trying to survive the mission and utilize it defensively. Some just want to run them casually and not put too much thought into it all while collecting some isk.

Is it a fair comment that it is the exact wrong way to use it? No, not really. Are there more efficient ways to use it? Sure. But considering the OP I didn't really want to get into that. Could I have chosen my words better? Yes.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-12-09 21:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
RNI + Cruise + split launchers + TP/Rigors + MJD. ... Easy peasy, efficient enough. Just make sure you end up about 100km from the next gate before the last jump. Beware of the jump cool down, if you jump in the middle of some mess, you may be doomed.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-12-09 23:01:08 UTC
Jumping away from the NPCs and sniping (typically from 120km with bouncers or long range guns) is "optimal" if you are low SP and may lose the occasional ship OR if you have real life commitments (like young children) that mean you may have to abandon the keyboard unexpectedly.

Jumping towards the NPCs and getting in brawling range will clear the missions much faster if you have the SP and tank, particularly if you are in a Marauder and is "optimal" in terms of ISK/hour..

Another (but definitely not optimal) option is to fit the MJD as a "get out of jail free card" and only ever use it if you are in serious trouble. (The reason this optional is not optimal is you are wasting a mid slot and a lot of CPU and grid on a module you may never activate.)
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2014-12-10 04:02:57 UTC
Major Xadi wrote:
Maybe I always did it wrong then. I mostly do L4 in a marauder now, but when I was first doing L4 in Amarr space I was dealing with Sansha tracking disrupters and didn't have great skills yet. The MJD let me get range on the TD cruisers where i could pop them before they screwed my tracking. Sansha cruisers can TD from about 82 km out. If you're in close and a new wave spawns, you're going to get 2-4 TDs on you quick. If you have pulse fitted, you can't hit anything. You will be picked apart in some of the more difficult missions. It's not as efficient as dealing close range damage, but it's better than dealing no damage at all due to ewar.


A tactical use which I wasn't really thinking about due to not fighting a ton of sanshas and/or using a marauder when doing so. As long as it helps you do a better job finishing missions then it is a good use imo. I just think that in general sitting 100km away from the rats has no value. I was in a raven brawling the NPCs back when I was a few months old, MJDs didn't even exist. I've seen generations of 3 month old raven pilots with 5.0 sec status and high corp standings (shame you can't see people's npc standings anymore) running all around missions hubs. although with the changes to the raven you can kinda fit a MJD for free, seeing as the raven never even had that midslot before.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2014-12-10 05:09:29 UTC
Leoric Firesword wrote:
bouncers? check
cruise missiles? check
not counting volleys because ammo is cheap? check

MJD'ing to 100KM away and blowing stuff up as it comes to you? priceless

That said, RHML+Rattlesnake+Gecko = way more fun.



if I'm doing that I'm checking to make sure I have auto targeting missiles in the hold. It works surprisingly well, drones hit the big stuff, cruise hit whatever is closest, and you do enough damage pretty much everything dies before it can touch you Bear

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
servalaan
#18 - 2014-12-11 02:17:37 UTC
MJD's are for pussies.

AB's are for pro's

If pinocchio told you his nose was about to grow, what would happen?
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-12-15 03:53:36 UTC
Vargur, MJD, 1200mm artty, and deep deep deep fall off means you hit things hard....but in closer (60ish seems "optimal" range for best results but that is still fall off) and it gets better......if you are closer it is even better. Since the fall off nerf, long range doesn't really have that long range for 800mm autos anymore Ugh, but the 1200 is pretty cost effective with a MWD+MJD, AB+MJD if you are macho enough to paint your nails Shocked between cycles of the 1400 artty (can't stand the guns) since there is nothing else to do but they are highly cost effective with faction ammo for a sniper.