These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Focused Void Bomb and Chance to Hit

Author
Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1 - 2014-12-07 16:34:42 UTC
Hello fellow Spaceshipwarriors,

as you might remember there was a new kind of Bomb introduced in Phoebe called the focused void bomb. A bomb designed to be used in combat against capitals that will neutralize 15000 GJ in the capacitor of the enemy ship hit.

For the ones not familiar with it, I posted the attributes below, also highlighting the issue I have with them.

http://puu.sh/dkOV4/f83ecf0d23.jpg

As you can see, the area of effect radius is 1m only. This effectively means, you have to time the bomb that exactly that it will explode while being inside the collision bubble of the target. While I absolutely understand the need to make it impossible to hit multiple targets with that kind of bomb at once, currently it is just too difficult to hit them at all.
You can absolutely forget to hit more than 1 of 10 tries on a moving Carrier or Dreadnought (of course, hitting Supercaps is easier, but I don't think that's their intended use), and on Carriers in triage or Dreads in siege it still is very unreliable.
Hitting them should be difficult, but a skilled player should be able to do it reliably. At the moment, there's just too much luck involved.
The reasons for that are

  • Above 9999m distance from your target, the EVE overview only displays in "km". Meaning, for the whole range from 30999m to 30000m it will simply display as 30km.
  • There is a delay between you clicking the button and the bomb being launched and activated
  • The bomb spawns in front of your bomber and then flies away. I have no idea if the 30km it then travels are from that spot or from the center of your ship (which is again different from the distance you see on the overview)


This all makes it so much more a game of luck, than a game of skills - and that's wrong.

So please CCP, fix it :) I think the easiest solution would be to implement a logic into the bomb, where it automatically damaged one capital target closest to it's location up to like 100m or so. Also some visual clue on the overview (like bomb launcher button turning green or whatever) when you would hit your current target could be a solution.
Sigras
Conglomo
#2 - 2014-12-07 16:42:16 UTC
If it works properly against supercaps and not against regular caps then what makes you think its intended use is against regular caps?

perhaps you meant that you want its use to be against regular caps?
Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#3 - 2014-12-07 16:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Anariasis
Supercaps don't die because they get neuted so hard, they die because a lot of fighter bombers and doomsdays hit them. And quite a lot of other stuff. It's a battle of dps vs enemy logistics there. Just have a look on supercap kills on eve-kill or whatever, you won't see a fleet of Geddons or Bhaals on there, just DPS.

Dreads and most of all triage carriers however, can often only be broken and killed because you neut them out - at least in WH fights and smaller k-space fights. The bigger a fight gets, the less important neuts become because you can just out-dps their tank.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-12-07 19:17:33 UTC
Anariasis wrote:
Supercaps don't die because they get neuted so hard, they die because a lot of fighter bombers and doomsdays hit them. And quite a lot of other stuff. It's a battle of dps vs enemy logistics there. Just have a look on supercap kills on eve-kill or whatever, you won't see a fleet of Geddons or Bhaals on there, just DPS.

Dreads and most of all triage carriers however, can often only be broken and killed because you neut them out - at least in WH fights and smaller k-space fights. The bigger a fight gets, the less important neuts become because you can just out-dps their tank.



Erm...

If neuting supers and titans doesn't matter, then why is every (gimmicky, suicidal) super fighting subcap fleet packing as many neuts as possible?

Is shutting down the tank of the guy you're trying to kill not EVEN MORE important when said tank is measured in multiple millions of EHP?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2014-12-07 22:35:02 UTC
use these all the time in WHs and you can hit a siege/triage cap every time unless its just been bumped and i had always thought they were meant to be used on suppers. Even as they were announced people were worried they would be to strong against regular caps
Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#6 - 2014-12-08 00:06:49 UTC
Well, show me how you do it, to hit a carrier or dread every time.
As I explained above, you have to blind-guess when to click, as EVE doesnt tell you where exactly you are and then there's the variable module lag.
Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#7 - 2014-12-08 00:15:15 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


Erm...

If neuting supers and titans doesn't matter, then why is every (gimmicky, suicidal) super fighting subcap fleet packing as many neuts as possible?

Is shutting down the tank of the guy you're trying to kill not EVEN MORE important when said tank is measured in multiple millions of EHP?


I was talking about proper supercap fights.
The kitchen-sink supercap ganking fleet does that mainly to keep targets capacitor below jump-cap. Of course they also do it to shut down active armor/shield hardeners to make it quicker, so the super doesn't get help. But that's not a fight anyway.

The only proper use of that thing is, to finally break that triage carrier you couldn't break before.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-12-08 09:43:45 UTC
The deviation on the overview is 999 meters. A capital is over 3000m in radii and you ship is no more than 300m.

Taking a hefty margins, you have up to 1700m of margin on your run no matter how you calculate and if your speed is roughly 430m/s cloaked then you have at least 3 server ticks where you are guaranteed to hit a properly aligned bombing run. Run your speed to 76% and it goes to 4 guaranteed ticks.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#9 - 2014-12-08 19:24:31 UTC
Also, eve online ships are rendered as spheres, some of which are quite large... This precision strike weapon only needs to hit inside the sphere, which on a battleship is over a kilometer in diameter since the whole model needs to fit in it for rendering reasons...
Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-02-10 16:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sbrodor
i did some real test in game and the result is awful.

bombing from above or behind capitals make very difficult to hit something. the overview switch from 31 to 30 to 29 km and with only 1 meter range we have only random choice to hit something between 30.999m to 30.000m. And that work for triage caps only , even 50m\s for 10 sec fly time move the cap of 500meters (how we can hit supercap).

i consider something more human having like 500m radius , is still for expert bombing run and u have to choice 1 single precise align but at least u can have good choice to hit him considering lag or TiDi!