Science & Industry

TBH it's not like they hurt Industry in any way, you're free to ignore teams completely. If you want them to be used it's pretty easy to have an intern tweak a few numbers to make them more compelling.

Personally I think it would be cool to have strong ME teams with a build time drawback proportional to the ME savings. Likewise have High TE teams (like 25-30% faster) with a minor ME drawback. It would be a real choice to pick between a much better margin built slowly and a smaller margin with much higher production volume.

'Should' is not the same as 'do'. People do expect CCP to leave things in a shambles and let the players sort it out with 3rd party tools and sheer obstinance. They've evidently decided to go in a different direction to try and earn some higher expectations from their playerbase. They had some specific effect in mind and teams aren't really affecting the metrics they want them to so they're nixing the project until they can make sure it does..

Which feels odd for eve..

EVE players will somehow manage to make lemonade if they're given lemon shaped rocks. Seeing CCP go and snatch a few people's crappy lemon rocks is strange. It's doubly strange because we've already seen stories emerge from the team mechanic...

I can understand their logic to a certain extent. I would much rather see a proper rework or a removal of a feature as opposed to some sloppy quick-fix. And being willing to remove a feature that doesn't work is a good sign... But in this instance I think they should just leave teams untouched until they have the resources to devote to a rework.

Another vote to keep the teams at least as they are

Pretty disappointed with this change. Teams give people who have the foresight to plan a month in advance an edge. It lets you specialize into certain industries, but it also locks you into your choices to a certain extent. What if you blow a ton of isk on a team only for that item to sink in profitability for a month? That's the risk. What if your system index goes too high and you need to move? Another risk. On the other hand, you could be producing items for 5% less if you make the RIGHT choices and plan ahead. You can also make terrible choices and actually lose isk. I think this is great.

There is also a PVP element. You can, for the first time, see where your competition is coming from. For example, using teams, I have identified the production systems of two super heavy producers. I have unironically been considering using an altcorp or merc corp to wardec them and demand they stop production in my field. This isn't possible without teams.

You can also simply spam bids on teams to block everyone else at a huge expense to yourself - but maybe it's worth it to you. Again, more interesting potential choices.

Removing teams removes a lot of choice from production, and industry goes back to very linear gameplay - ie. is X item profitable or not -> pick cheapest station to build in.

They also have a huge positive effect on nullsec industry. With distances comes cost. In Deklein, our freighter service costs are around 300-400isk/m3. This means that a battleship costs 15-18mil to export for sale. Even with T2, importing essential moon materials, low end minerals and invention materials costs a significant amount of isk that isn't even remotely a factor in highsec. I know other nullsec regions are much further and therefore much less viable for production due to import costs. Teams make up for this huge drawback by lowering material requirements and helping the margin. The other problem with nullsec is the limited number of production systems in a region, which causes much higher indexes in certain systems than you might see in a typical highsec system.

The only thing I'd like to MAYBE see changes is the auction system - sniping kind of sucks. But even there - it could give the little guy the chance to snipe a bargain team that the big guys fell asleep on - a more structured auction system would disable that. And if you really want the team, you don't need to try to lowball snipe it. Drop your wallet on the table and pay up properly. The distribution of teams could also get a rebalance - there seem to be way too many TE teams, and certain teams ike components are lacking.

If people aren't using the teams, it's their fault for failing to realize the potential. You can get low-mid range teams for very cheap - there are enough of them that anyone should be able to get a benefit.

Don't remove teams, fix auctions.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5225400#post5225400

With the increased build costs getting punitive in some areas teams are the only way to offset that and reward centralised industry.

Also I think it's kind of hilarious that CCP are now looking at their past work and going "Does this actually work as intended? Did we implement this really badly? Do any of our design choices here make any kind of sense?". That's not what eve is about. EVE is about, as the man above excellently put it, making lemonade out of the lemon shaped rocks CCP throw at the player base. If you're actually going to try and be good at your jobs then God help us all, there is next to nothing in EVE which works as it should and teams are actually on the fruity end of the lemon shaped rock spectrum.

What about blind auctions with punters contributing to a pool per system?

Thus if I place a bid for Team X with 2% off material costs of cruisers in Eystur, that bid goes into a pool bidding for Team X in Eystur.

This is how i thought the system was supposed to work :(

Without support for true bidding wars this was a useless feature that only padded the pockets of those rich from sources outside of manufacturing

Pls no.

Get off my teams and get out, go do something else. They are lovely.

You are basically saying 'people are too silly to recognise how good they are, and so we are deleting them'.

The problem here does not lie with the teams being or not being in the game, but lies with education on how to use them and their benefits, especially in particular circumstance.

The changes made recently, including the team dynamic, have returned me and others I know to industry to a large scale, and I fear that especially for big industry players who rely on small margins on great values, that without teams, it simply will not be worth the effort.

Take a large industrial guy running in a system, with say, several builders. The installation costs through the value of his product soar, and this can be countered by the clever use of teams. By adding scaling production costs in the form of increasing install costs, and not allowing a counterbalance, it reaches a stage where large scale industry becomes pointless for the isk/hr it generates when compared to less important for the game things, like ratting or incursions.

Please consider a different approach of education and awareness, instead of scorched earth madness.

I just used the jita team to save 2% on materials to manufacture high-grade implants.

I saved about 10mil all in all.

HANDS OFF MY TEAMS DAMMIT!