These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Make battleships and battlecruisers worth the warp! 2.0

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#281 - 2014-11-28 10:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
James Baboli wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
And the napoc doctrine took a little bit of a nerf today, not a bad one really, but they didn't need it. Sad

I missed it. What happened?


They are changing the way scorch and pulse lasers work. Scorch took a 2% nerf but the closer range ammo got a little boost to be a bit more viable as an option.


Falloff increase per Pulse type is:
Mega Pulses: +25%
Dual Heavy Pulses: +33.3%
Gatling Pulses, Giga Pulses: +100%

I wouldn't exactly call it nerf.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#282 - 2014-11-28 10:47:08 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
And the napoc doctrine took a little bit of a nerf today, not a bad one really, but they didn't need it. Sad

I missed it. What happened?


Read the stickies Sad

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#283 - 2014-11-28 19:56:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
And the napoc doctrine took a little bit of a nerf today, not a bad one really, but they didn't need it. Sad

I missed it. What happened?


They are changing the way scorch and pulse lasers work. Scorch took a 2% nerf but the closer range ammo got a little boost to be a bit more viable as an option.


Falloff increase per Pulse type is:
Mega Pulses: +25%
Dual Heavy Pulses: +33.3%
Gatling Pulses, Giga Pulses: +100%

I wouldn't exactly call it nerf.


It's really not a nerf, it just didn't really need to happen at all, IMO.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#284 - 2014-11-28 19:58:44 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
And the napoc doctrine took a little bit of a nerf today, not a bad one really, but they didn't need it. Sad

I missed it. What happened?


They are changing the way scorch and pulse lasers work. Scorch took a 2% nerf but the closer range ammo got a little boost to be a bit more viable as an option.


Falloff increase per Pulse type is:
Mega Pulses: +25%
Dual Heavy Pulses: +33.3%
Gatling Pulses, Giga Pulses: +100%

I wouldn't exactly call it nerf.


It's really not a nerf, it just didn't really need to happen at all, IMO.

and its the sort of small change that would be great as a polish pass, if there weren't cliffs of imbalance between many larger issues.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#285 - 2014-11-28 20:04:55 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
And the napoc doctrine took a little bit of a nerf today, not a bad one really, but they didn't need it. Sad

I missed it. What happened?


They are changing the way scorch and pulse lasers work. Scorch took a 2% nerf but the closer range ammo got a little boost to be a bit more viable as an option.


Falloff increase per Pulse type is:
Mega Pulses: +25%
Dual Heavy Pulses: +33.3%
Gatling Pulses, Giga Pulses: +100%

I wouldn't exactly call it nerf.


It's really not a nerf, it just didn't really need to happen at all, IMO.

and its the sort of small change that would be great as a polish pass, if there weren't cliffs of imbalance between many larger issues.


That's all I'm saying. vOv
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#286 - 2014-12-01 00:36:10 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
and its the sort of small change that would be great as a polish pass, if there weren't cliffs of imbalance between many larger issues.


Like large guns and ships or large guns on way too small ships.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2014-12-01 03:20:13 UTC
Battlecruisers are fine, battleships are underpowered because they have barely more EHP than battlecruisers and less EHP than strategic cruisers.


Give battleships larger shield extenders and armor plates, and decrease tech 3 resistances. Tech 2 can keep the high resists because they have low HP.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#288 - 2014-12-01 05:46:28 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Battlecruisers are fine, battleships are underpowered because they have barely more EHP than battlecruisers and less EHP than strategic cruisers.


Give battleships larger shield extenders and armor plates, and decrease tech 3 resistances. Tech 2 can keep the high resists because they have low HP.


I can hardly think of a better way to kill t3s than to hit them in the resists, which are usually not the primary problem. the biggest problem is the excessive ability to use over-sized modules and the tendency to make them blingy like nothing else, because of the skill point loss. The resists, in point of fact, are a serious necessity for several of their intended uses, like w-space fights as the subcap support for capital escalations, which means they need to survive under reps in a very big way.

Anyways, t3s are a topic for another thread, and Combat battle cruisers need a little bit more of an edge on their t1 cruiser counterparts IMO. Let me post numbers before you tell me they're fine, as where they are now is less than stellar.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#289 - 2014-12-01 11:30:41 UTC
All of the first draft base stat changes are up for t1 BS hulls. Will do navy by the end of the week, and get analysis of t1 hulls up around then too.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#290 - 2014-12-01 11:48:21 UTC
James Baboli wrote:


Combat battle cruisers need a little bit more of an edge on their t1 cruiser counterparts IMO.


Brutix overpowers the rax brutally.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#291 - 2014-12-03 02:45:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Baboli wrote:


Combat battle cruisers need a little bit more of an edge on their t1 cruiser counterparts IMO.


Brutix overpowers the rax brutally.


At knife range? or as kiting ships? or just all around?

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#292 - 2014-12-03 03:36:31 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
James Baboli wrote:


Combat battle cruisers need a little bit more of an edge on their t1 cruiser counterparts IMO.


Brutix overpowers the rax brutally.


At knife range? or as kiting ships? or just all around?


Both ships can kill the other but in terms of raw firepower the brutix wins. The brutix also gets to fit more tank in both active and buffer as well as the ability to fit things such as the 100mn AB.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#293 - 2014-12-03 20:54:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Both ships can kill the other but in terms of raw firepower the brutix wins. The brutix also gets to fit more tank in both active and buffer as well as the ability to fit things such as the 100mn AB.


...only on the fitting screen!

The 1053dps Brutix will do something in the range of 200dps against the resistance of a Deimos, which in return can tank that Brutix with one rep and kill it.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#294 - 2014-12-03 21:30:59 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Both ships can kill the other but in terms of raw firepower the brutix wins. The brutix also gets to fit more tank in both active and buffer as well as the ability to fit things such as the 100mn AB.


...only on the fitting screen!

The 1053dps Brutix will do something in the range of 200dps against the resistance of a Deimos, which in return can tank that Brutix with one rep and kill it.


Brutix gets a neut and more HP, Its perfectly capable of killing a diemost. Its a more suitable ship for gang work as its more firepower, more buffer and cheaper. Its also suprisingly able to fit a 100mn MWD and be used as an anti frig boat.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#295 - 2014-12-03 21:33:12 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Both ships can kill the other but in terms of raw firepower the brutix wins. The brutix also gets to fit more tank in both active and buffer as well as the ability to fit things such as the 100mn AB.


...only on the fitting screen!

The 1053dps Brutix will do something in the range of 200dps against the resistance of a Deimos, which in return can tank that Brutix with one rep and kill it.

He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#296 - 2014-12-03 21:45:30 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax.


Oh, I read Deimos..

The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#297 - 2014-12-03 21:49:05 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax.


Oh, I read Deimos..

The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we?


Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#298 - 2014-12-03 22:11:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax.


Oh, I read Deimos..

The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we?


Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.


In that case, I agree.

The thing that makes cruisers so strong is good firepower with very good mobility and kiting is the current sexy style which leaves them behind.

Do you think it would breake EVE if battleships got better sensors to get a quicker target lock on things?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#299 - 2014-12-03 22:21:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.

Some are, some aren't. A lot aren't worth the increased build cost relative to cruisers when you add up their down sides such as significantly lower mobility as well. You picked one of the currently performing BC's to base off. Which of course creates a biased view point.
CCP have metrics and have outright said in one of the recent threads that BC's as well as BS are not performing as well in the overall meta as they want them to be. But that they have been balancing inside each class first to make sure the classes are as equal as possible, then they will look at the between class balance more.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#300 - 2014-12-03 22:22:26 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
...

Do you think it would breake EVE if battleships got better sensors to get a quicker target lock on things?

Give them non-specific firing ability, that blankets an area in damage.

The smaller the area, the higher the concentration of damage.

Control for this would be manual, and up to the pilot to coordinate with ship movements.
Small ships, while possibly more vulnerable to being affected by this level of damage, would also be the easiest to avoid it entirely.

Right now we have enormous ships with ridiculously scaled up weapons, that operate otherwise exactly the same as their counterparts do on a frigate.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...