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[Rhea] The Confessor

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#221 - 2014-12-02 23:08:52 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active



So I could jump through a gate (in low or high) using this mode, click align to, switch to defensive, press "S" and instawarp? (same as getting webbed?)


isn't there a 10 second changing time?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#222 - 2014-12-02 23:38:23 UTC
Harvey James wrote:

isn't there a 10 second changing time?

Cooldown, Instant change, from what Sisi testers have said.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#223 - 2014-12-02 23:40:21 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Harvey James wrote:

isn't there a 10 second changing time?

Cooldown, Instant change, from what Sisi testers have said.


mm.. you would think a few seconds at least before it could change.. weird..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#224 - 2014-12-03 00:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Ele Rebellion wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active



So I could jump through a gate (in low or high) using this mode, click align to, switch to defensive, press "S" and instawarp? (same as getting webbed?)

you would already need to have inertia mods installed and the change would take at least a server tick after decloaking as I'm aware, so unless you were already prepared for it it wouldn't work so well. I have to get back on sisi and check but I don't think the align time is that fast anyway.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#225 - 2014-12-03 00:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Ele Rebellion wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active



So I could jump through a gate (in low or high) using this mode, click align to, switch to defensive, press "S" and instawarp? (same as getting webbed?)

Yeah, pretty much from the looks of things. 2s or less if you do it properly and the server works with you.

Edit:
Rowells wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active



So I could jump through a gate (in low or high) using this mode, click align to, switch to defensive, press "S" and instawarp? (same as getting webbed?)

you would already need to have inertia mods installed and the change would take at least a server tick after decloaking as I'm aware, so unless you were already prepared for it it wouldn't work so well. I have to get back on sisi and check but I don't think the align time is that fast anyway.

No, it'd take a lot less time because of the huge increase to max velocity. You take a fraction of your align time to reach 33% of your max velocity, but that's 100% of your max velocity when you switch from Propulsion to anything else. Combine that with the inertia bonus vastly improving your acceleration/align time already and what was a 7s align time (in another mode) is now a 1s timer to reach 33% speed, then 1s more for the server to change your mode.

Numbers are approximate. I haven't gotten to play with it yet. I don't know what the align time is like with skills.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#226 - 2014-12-03 00:44:48 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active



So I could jump through a gate (in low or high) using this mode, click align to, switch to defensive, press "S" and instawarp? (same as getting webbed?)

you would already need to have inertia mods installed and the change would take at least a server tick after decloaking as I'm aware, so unless you were already prepared for it it wouldn't work so well. I have to get back on sisi and check but I don't think the align time is that fast anyway.


You dont need to uncloak before you change the mode.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
almanac Omaristos
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2014-12-03 02:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Almanac Omaristos
Wow been testing this ship for the past 2 days with random friends on the test server. most of them have been in assault frigs and interceptors the confessor no matter the fit (out of the hundreds I tested) hasn't been able to kill a single one


when It comes to fighting frigs solo this ship sucks

the only application that's worth anything is the bonuses to fitting expanded core probe launchers with a combat fit (which is terrible btw)


if you invest 40 mill into the confessor you will end up being killed by 10 to 20 mil ships all day long its not worth it (at all).

i'd recommend adding an additional tracking bonuses of 10% and giving it 20% reduction in sig as a role bonus


these are needed so it can atleast give a t2 frig some trouble in a 1v1 because currently I see no reason why I should pay 40mill for something that's going to get murdered horribly by everything except a noob ship
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#228 - 2014-12-03 04:00:22 UTC
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Wow been testing this ship for the past 2 days with random friends on the test server. most of them have been in assault frigs and interceptors the confessor no matter the fit (out of the hundreds I tested) hasn't been able to kill a single one


when It comes to fighting frigs solo this ship sucks

the only application that's worth anything is the bonuses to fitting expanded core probe launchers with a combat fit (which is terrible btw)


if you invest 40 mill into the confessor you will end up being killed by 10 to 20 mil ships all day long its not worth it (at all).

i'd recommend adding an additional tracking bonuses of 10% and giving it 20% reduction in sig as a role bonus


these are needed so it can atleast give a t2 frig some trouble in a 1v1 because currently I see no reason why I should pay 40mill for something that's going to get murdered horribly by everything except a noob ship

I would counter that with my experience of killing anything that didn't warp off. Armor ships are much harder to kill but it can be done.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#229 - 2014-12-03 04:35:23 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:

No, it'd take a lot less time because of the huge increase to max velocity. You take a fraction of your align time to reach 33% of your max velocity, but that's 100% of your max velocity when you switch from Propulsion to anything else. Combine that with the inertia bonus vastly improving your acceleration/align time already and what was a 7s align time (in another mode) is now a 1s timer to reach 33% speed, then 1s more for the server to change your mode.

Numbers are approximate. I haven't gotten to play with it yet. I don't know what the align time is like with skills.

Your maths needs some work.
It's +2/3rds velocity, not +200%
So if your velocity was 166 when in Prop mode, it's 100 out of prop mode or 60%.
It will speed it up, but it will not speed it up as much as what you are stating.
almanac Omaristos
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2014-12-03 05:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Almanac Omaristos
Rowells wrote:
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Wow been testing this ship for the past 2 days with random friends on the test server. most of them have been in assault frigs and interceptors the confessor no matter the fit (out of the hundreds I tested) hasn't been able to kill a single one


when It comes to fighting frigs solo this ship sucks

the only application that's worth anything is the bonuses to fitting expanded core probe launchers with a combat fit (which is terrible btw)


if you invest 40 mill into the confessor you will end up being killed by 10 to 20 mil ships all day long its not worth it (at all).

i'd recommend adding an additional tracking bonuses of 10% and giving it 20% reduction in sig as a role bonus


these are needed so it can atleast give a t2 frig some trouble in a 1v1 because currently I see no reason why I should pay 40mill for something that's going to get murdered horribly by everything except a noob ship

I would counter that with my experience of killing anything that didn't warp off. Armor ships are much harder to kill but it can be done.


You see in the hours of testing I've performed with the ship it was actual testing of the ship against your standard fitted t2 interceptor and assault frigs it wasn't shooting at random people and whoring on the kill mail right before they die to a titan. The test I did were performed with many different brawling and snipping fits all of them had a 1/10 win ratio against your standard t2 frig. Why should I pay 40 mill on a crappy ship when I can buy a cheaper and more effective one for 20? The ship its self with the bounses it currently has makes it an utter waste of time and effort

Please note that these ships died even after they were fitted to directly counter the other ships
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#231 - 2014-12-03 05:34:48 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Rowells wrote:

you would already need to have inertia mods installed and the change would take at least a server tick after decloaking as I'm aware, so unless you were already prepared for it it wouldn't work so well. I have to get back on sisi and check but I don't think the align time is that fast anyway.

No, it'd take a lot less time because of the huge increase to max velocity. You take a fraction of your align time to reach 33% of your max velocity, but that's 100% of your max velocity when you switch from Propulsion to anything else. Combine that with the inertia bonus vastly improving your acceleration/align time already and what was a 7s align time (in another mode) is now a 1s timer to reach 33% speed, then 1s more for the server to change your mode.

Numbers are approximate. I haven't gotten to play with it yet. I don't know what the align time is like with skills.
align speed is independent of max velocity
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#232 - 2014-12-03 12:34:13 UTC
Rowells wrote:
align speed is independent of max velocity

well, sorta. warp activation is a function of current speed as a percentage of current maximum speed, thus a prop mod turning off, webs landing, onlining a plate and several other tricks to suddenly reduce top speed will push you into warp faster than normal if correctly applied.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#233 - 2014-12-03 12:41:58 UTC
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Rowells wrote:
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Wow been testing this ship for the past 2 days with random friends on the test server. most of them have been in assault frigs and interceptors the confessor no matter the fit (out of the hundreds I tested) hasn't been able to kill a single one


when It comes to fighting frigs solo this ship sucks

the only application that's worth anything is the bonuses to fitting expanded core probe launchers with a combat fit (which is terrible btw)


if you invest 40 mill into the confessor you will end up being killed by 10 to 20 mil ships all day long its not worth it (at all).

i'd recommend adding an additional tracking bonuses of 10% and giving it 20% reduction in sig as a role bonus


these are needed so it can atleast give a t2 frig some trouble in a 1v1 because currently I see no reason why I should pay 40mill for something that's going to get murdered horribly by everything except a noob ship

I would counter that with my experience of killing anything that didn't warp off. Armor ships are much harder to kill but it can be done.


You see in the hours of testing I've performed with the ship it was actual testing of the ship against your standard fitted t2 interceptor and assault frigs it wasn't shooting at random people and whoring on the kill mail right before they die to a titan. The test I did were performed with many different brawling and snipping fits all of them had a 1/10 win ratio against your standard t2 frig. Why should I pay 40 mill on a crappy ship when I can buy a cheaper and more effective one for 20? The ship its self with the bounses it currently has makes it an utter waste of time and effort

Please note that these ships died even after they were fitted to directly counter the other ships
seeing as my kills were not the whoring you believe they were I still disagree. This ship is very effective. Granted, I have not had any successful brawls in it, but I did manage to take down a T1 cruiser or two as well.
almanac Omaristos
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2014-12-03 14:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Almanac Omaristos
Rowells wrote:
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Rowells wrote:
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Wow been testing this ship for the past 2 days with random friends on the test server. most of them have been in assault frigs and interceptors the confessor no matter the fit (out of the hundreds I tested) hasn't been able to kill a single one


when It comes to fighting frigs solo this ship sucks

the only application that's worth anything is the bonuses to fitting expanded core probe launchers with a combat fit (which is terrible btw)


if you invest 40 mill into the confessor you will end up being killed by 10 to 20 mil ships all day long its not worth it (at all).

i'd recommend adding an additional tracking bonuses of 10% and giving it 20% reduction in sig as a role bonus


these are needed so it can atleast give a t2 frig some trouble in a 1v1 because currently I see no reason why I should pay 40mill for something that's going to get murdered horribly by everything except a noob ship

I would counter that with my experience of killing anything that didn't warp off. Armor ships are much harder to kill but it can be done.


You see in the hours of testing I've performed with the ship it was actual testing of the ship against your standard fitted t2 interceptor and assault frigs it wasn't shooting at random people and whoring on the kill mail right before they die to a titan. The test I did were performed with many different brawling and snipping fits all of them had a 1/10 win ratio against your standard t2 frig. Why should I pay 40 mill on a crappy ship when I can buy a cheaper and more effective one for 20? The ship its self with the bounses it currently has makes it an utter waste of time and effort

Please note that these ships died even after they were fitted to directly counter the other ships
seeing as my kills were not the whoring you believe they were I still disagree. This ship is very effective. Granted, I have not had any successful brawls in it, but I did manage to take down a T1 cruiser or two as well.




the majority of my test where conducted against frigs only, Ill test out a few sniping against a few t1 cruisers. Destroyers have always been advertised as an anti frig platform , a hard counter to interceptors and assault frigs.

Maybe its just a good anti t1 cruiser platform? still though 40 mill is more expensive then a lot of t1 cruisers. I'm extremely skeptical but ill give it a try.

EDIT: Rowells do you believe it needs a tracking bonuses? or some kind of buff?>
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#235 - 2014-12-03 14:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Rowells wrote:
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Rowells wrote:
almanac Omaristos wrote:
Wow been testing this ship for the past 2 days with random friends on the test server. most of them have been in assault frigs and interceptors the confessor no matter the fit (out of the hundreds I tested) hasn't been able to kill a single one


when It comes to fighting frigs solo this ship sucks

the only application that's worth anything is the bonuses to fitting expanded core probe launchers with a combat fit (which is terrible btw)


if you invest 40 mill into the confessor you will end up being killed by 10 to 20 mil ships all day long its not worth it (at all).

i'd recommend adding an additional tracking bonuses of 10% and giving it 20% reduction in sig as a role bonus


these are needed so it can atleast give a t2 frig some trouble in a 1v1 because currently I see no reason why I should pay 40mill for something that's going to get murdered horribly by everything except a noob ship

I would counter that with my experience of killing anything that didn't warp off. Armor ships are much harder to kill but it can be done.


You see in the hours of testing I've performed with the ship it was actual testing of the ship against your standard fitted t2 interceptor and assault frigs it wasn't shooting at random people and whoring on the kill mail right before they die to a titan. The test I did were performed with many different brawling and snipping fits all of them had a 1/10 win ratio against your standard t2 frig. Why should I pay 40 mill on a crappy ship when I can buy a cheaper and more effective one for 20? The ship its self with the bounses it currently has makes it an utter waste of time and effort

Please note that these ships died even after they were fitted to directly counter the other ships
seeing as my kills were not the whoring you believe they were I still disagree. This ship is very effective. Granted, I have not had any successful brawls in it, but I did manage to take down a T1 cruiser or two as well.




the majority of my test where conducted against frigs only, Ill test out a few sniping against a few t1 cruisers. Destroyers have always been advertised as an anti frig platform , a hard counter to interceptors and assault frigs.

Maybe its just a good anti t1 cruiser platform? still though 40 mill is more expensive then a lot of t1 cruisers. I'm extremely skeptical but ill give it a try.

EDIT: Rowells do you believe it needs a tracking bonuses? or some kind of buff?>
if it did get a tracking bonus I would imagine it would need to make sacrifices elsewhere, or it would be put in a separate mode from the sniping one. I only think it becomes an issue when you are trying to hit ships going extremely fast (5k/s+) and getting well within weapons range. That was one of the issues I ran into with pulses. Simply not applying the same damage as aurora, while also taking damage.

I think the biggest issue it suffers is being a destroyer. The same reasons that most destroyers die so easily also plague this ship, albeit less so since it can switch modes. And because it's modes are very clear cut and its damage predictable, hard counters will not be difficult to find. That being said, this ship also has great strengths which make it excellent as a kiter and sniper.

Maybe I'm a little biased by the probe bonus (it's awesome imo) but I do believe it's versatility is still pretty limited to supporting its strongest position as a sniper.

E: to clarify, the most likely victim of an added tracking bonus would be the damage bonus from tactical destroyer skill.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#236 - 2014-12-03 19:02:17 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
This thing isn't a souped up T1 destroyer, it's a souped up Interdictor. Resist profile + other stats look more like T2 dessie than T1 dessie. Fleets of these things are going to rule everywhere. They will clear out support ships like nobody's business and make fleet warfare very monolithic. Small plexes just got real boring as well.


They'll go down to what, like three volleys from a sentry ishtar?
almanac Omaristos
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2014-12-03 19:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Almanac Omaristos
If it did get a tracking bonus they would have to lower the damage bonuses from 10% to 5% and maybe take out the bonuses to capacitor as well. id imagine the bonuses may look like

5% damage
5% tracking

__________

actually as a side note I wouldn't mind if the confessor had the same bonuses as the apoc

7.5% tracking
7.5% to optimal range

The latter would simply be better as it does in fact add a lot of versatility to both pulses and beams optimal range increasing survivability. The only issue with the latter set up is the fact that the bonuses of the sniping mod and standard bonuses would stack.


(or maybe keep the bonuses the same and just give a 10% tracking bonus while in defensive mod)
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#238 - 2014-12-03 22:29:14 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
This thing isn't a souped up T1 destroyer, it's a souped up Interdictor. Resist profile + other stats look more like T2 dessie than T1 dessie. Fleets of these things are going to rule everywhere. They will clear out support ships like nobody's business and make fleet warfare very monolithic. Small plexes just got real boring as well.

this wont be anything like the beam coercer from the days before the coercer nerf.

it doesnt have the tracking bonus like the coercer and thus will suck.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#239 - 2014-12-04 03:13:33 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

No, it'd take a lot less time because of the huge increase to max velocity. You take a fraction of your align time to reach 33% of your max velocity, but that's 100% of your max velocity when you switch from Propulsion to anything else. Combine that with the inertia bonus vastly improving your acceleration/align time already and what was a 7s align time (in another mode) is now a 1s timer to reach 33% speed, then 1s more for the server to change your mode.

Numbers are approximate. I haven't gotten to play with it yet. I don't know what the align time is like with skills.

Your maths needs some work.
It's +2/3rds velocity, not +200%
So if your velocity was 166 when in Prop mode, it's 100 out of prop mode or 60%.
It will speed it up, but it will not speed it up as much as what you are stating.

I forgot how to numbers.
Regardless, still a hell of a lot faster to warp by using this mechanic.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2014-12-04 12:55:34 UTC
The Confessor is a terrible destroyer. As a frig its a good frigate but as a t3 dessie then quite frankly the Interdictors does it better.

Sure it can out damage stuff at close range but then loses out to Blasters. and even at long range the LML Heretic and Flycatcher out DPS/Alpha and out range the confessor even in sniper mode with beams. Hell a rail eris out ranges it (btw these dessie have no damage mods, but the confessor does)

The only thing the confessor does better is tank but the trade off for this cripples the ship when compared to the Interdictors.

Sure being able to change modes is great and all that but when the interdictors can out preform 2 of the 3 modes while still and coming close to the third, and yet still doing good dps, good projection and better fitting

Right now to me the confessor is not worth the investment

So Much Space