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Dev blog: A new Era of Clones

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#121 - 2014-12-02 20:52:06 UTC
So many slippery slopes attempting to be erected in this thread. Please stop.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Valterra Craven
#122 - 2014-12-02 20:52:39 UTC
XR05 wrote:
UFS Fenix wrote:
What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve.


Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates...


So apparently hitting a button to make sure your clone will retain all your SP is a challenge....

I don't think you guys understand what challenges are....
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2014-12-02 21:06:02 UTC
Yes, because in an active battle in space, not only do you need to reship - join up with your fleet again or join a new fleet - and shoot bad guys, you need to also remember to click three buttons and spend some ISK to make sure you still have the skills to fly that same exact ship.

That is really what makes EVE challenging- those extra few clicks. Right???
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2014-12-02 21:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
XR05 wrote:
Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "mini" updates...look what happen, no more 50K+ in weekends after all new "mini" updates all time become more boring game...


Spoken like a true PVP veteran. Oh wait.

King Fu Hostile wrote:

It's not about the ISK, clone costs are trivial and literally nobody cares about them. However, the fear of losing skillpoints was not trivial, it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake. Now there's no fear anymore, you can lose your pod million times and it never means anything.



So you're saying that your fear is what is powering your epic killboard stats?

King Fu Hostile wrote:
I chose EVE because it had harsh consequences for mistakes, the possibility to lose skill points being the most important of these. Yes, losing a level V skill is indeed a negative experience (I've trained Astrometric Rangefinding V twice, herp derp), but the existence of such brutalities create the necessary contrast to positive experiences.

Without butthurt, there can be no joy either. This is the yin and yang of everything, and games aren't exceptions.



This is an ironic post coming from a posting alt

Edit:

Mikkymisodonlow wrote:
So this is certainly starting to sound like EVE is going in the direction of Call of duty. Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn..... with no consequences or cost or even the remote ability to use that thing rattling around inside your skull to prevent you from making a regrettable mistake. but isnt that what makes this game fun?


So as someone said, EVE is becoming less of a hardcore game and turning into WoW, even the blind can see that.

CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :)


This is also an ironic post coming from a posting alt

edit2:

Distant Soul wrote:
CCP definitely turning this into a **** game. good job.


Yet another posting alt. If these are mains, this is getting pretty sad.
Mikkymisodonlow
Forever Mindless
#125 - 2014-12-02 21:25:01 UTC
So this is certainly starting to sound like EVE is going in the direction of Call of duty. Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn..... with no consequences or cost or even the remote ability to use that thing rattling around inside your skull to prevent you from making a regrettable mistake. but isnt that what makes this game fun?


So as someone said, EVE is becoming less of a hardcore game and turning into WoW, even the blind can see that.

CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :)
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-12-02 21:28:34 UTC
Mikkymisodonlow wrote:
So this is certainly starting to sound like EVE is going in the direction of Call of duty. Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn..... with no consequences or cost or even the remote ability to use that thing rattling around inside your skull to prevent you from making a regrettable mistake. but isnt that what makes this game fun?


So as someone said, EVE is becoming less of a hardcore game and turning into WoW, even the blind can see that.

CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :)

I, too, consider rote busywork the hallmark of a "hardcore game."

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Lateris
#127 - 2014-12-02 21:33:12 UTC
If CCP is going to give us new clothes then at least gives us the corp offices sometime downnnnn the road. Otherwise this is a great expansion\update :) Ty for the Drones update for the UI. PiratePiratePiratePirate

0/
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-12-02 21:36:11 UTC
Mikkymisodonlow wrote:
CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :)


Bye :) and THANKS!
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#129 - 2014-12-02 21:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sizeof Void
I agree completely with the reasons for making this change. Good job, CCP.

CCP Terminus wrote:
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:
Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now?

There will be no refunds relating to the removal of the upgrade mechanic.

It is both impractical (determining when a person last bought their clone and for what price seeing as factional warfare and previous balancing has changed prices) and undesirable from our view to do so.

You could simply reimburse the current clones at the current prices. This would be trivial - just a couple of lines of SQL.

At least, everyone would get something back - and something is better than nothing. It would also cut down on the inevitable whining and it is not exploitable, since it is a one-time reimbursement.
Distant Soul
Doomheim
#130 - 2014-12-02 21:43:58 UTC
CCP definitely turning this into a **** game. good job.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#131 - 2014-12-02 21:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Hardwire implants are a phenomenally useful tool, they provide a real benefit in combat and at a risk and price to discourage casual, illconsidered use, true risk and reward, though that phrase gets used to justify so many bad suggestions. Roll
learning implants, not so much. Crippling your learning to engage in PVP simply encourages risk evasion, the very behaviour that they should be preventing.

They really need to be seperated.

Suggestion,

1. learning implants are purchased through the life of a character, and become a permanent part of their clone contract. Just like the golden Pod.

To encourage the decision to upgrade to have a real magnitude, Upgrading to a new, better, learning implant destroys the original implant.

2. Hardwirings however including the additional functionality of genolutions, slaves etc (seperate their functionality from the learning functions in new slots), are occasionally dropped on death, for players to loot according to the loot fairy and are not replaced during rebirth and need replacing if required. Buying a slave set will now only equip slot 15-21 for example, the learning element is removed.

3. Seperate clone jumping from Implant switching. Clone jumping transfers the current hardwire implant fit. The clone always retains the learning implants purchased.

4. Allow the SWAPPING of implants, any item in slot 6 for example needs to be replaced by another slot 6 implant. naturally people will purchase and have multiple stocks of implants,for different roles at various locations where their clones reside.

5. Allow implant fitting plans to be saved, just the same as ship fittings for fast re-equipping.


That is all.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2014-12-02 21:49:06 UTC
Tip: Do not be dumb and post complaints about this change on your limited/zero pvp posting alts.

Where is the HTFU crowd when you need them?
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#133 - 2014-12-02 21:56:32 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Tip: Do not be dumb and post complaints about this change on your limited/zero pvp posting alts.

Where is the HTFU crowd when you need them?


They are doing things that are more interesting than supporting your elitist my way or the highway propaganda.
Udonor
Doomheim
#134 - 2014-12-02 22:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty?

How about random location if using NPC service?

Rationale: NPC corp is resurrecting clones on first space available basis. (Could optionally throw in some communication network saturation effects too based on demand vs sovereignty/security=level of development - if you want to make the story more complex.)

That would certainly be inconvenient and possibly challenging. Adds realism by increasing time for most players to reenter an ongoing battle...unless Corp cloning facility is in area and thus at risk. Plus its an opportunity to get slugabeds to see new parts of EVE and interact with new player toons. Alliances or friendships might span much of EVE to some degree to facilitate returning pilots...and even lead to trade etc crossing out of isolated sovereignty or hi sec areas.

Home base fee would then select an NPC corp and maybe slightly increase odds of appearing at particular station that NPC corp owns. Fees MIGHT vary similar to Corp Office fees (overall NPC corp demand, number of NPC corp stations and desirability rank of prefered station EVEwide). I suppose CCP could allow players could subscribe to $$$ faction level clone recovery or multiple NPC corps if players think that might help (CCP making shorter distances slightly more probable outcomes).

Basically corps would be rewarded for investing in corp cloning facilities and placing them in risky strategic positions. But there probably should be conditions when corp systems are overloaded (blob battle) and cloning rolls over into NPC stations...or players AI final will and testament (implemented as player client popup) opts to wait until corp facility can handle their resurrection (can play another toon until popup says clone is available). Hmmm...I can see corp execs wanting at least 2-3 level priority setting for who gets resurrected first during big battle if corp clone facilities are inadequate.

And I realize that this would make it more feasible to push null sec owners out of their systems if you could inflict enough poddings and kill their clone facilities. Gee that sounds like strategy beyond the bet phone call and biggest wallet and shipyards in null!!! With changes to # of jumps per time there would almost be a call for intelligence officers to track key enemy ship positions - since everyone in EVE could not necessarily arrive at big blob battle and keep returning until they ran out of fitted ships.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-12-02 22:09:29 UTC
Udonor wrote:
OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty?

Loss of implants and removal from the area of space you were in isn't good enough?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2014-12-02 22:11:30 UTC
I would argue that having to reship and rejoin your fleet in 10% TiDi is a big enough penalty.
Ian Morbius
Potomac Greeting Card Company
#137 - 2014-12-02 22:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ian Morbius
Soon coming to in game chat. "In my days, we use to pay isk for clone upgrades, and let me tell you about pod death isk costs...." To avoid this, can't we just keep the upgrade costs. Lol

I keed.
Udonor
Doomheim
#138 - 2014-12-02 22:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Querns wrote:
Udonor wrote:
OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty?

Loss of implants and removal from the area of space you were in isn't good enough?


Implants in battle -- maybe none.

Removal from area? LOL

Right now & as proposed to continue -- Only if there isn't an NPC medical clone station nearby to which to set yourself and store your extra ships. Such player basing is super common if you have extra ships and time or some player toon to haul the extras.

*** In fact I assume null alliances will have noncombat players use new Bowhead to constantly haul non-capital replacement ships to staging area near blob battles (but still behind their defense lines such as they are). ****

In fact Bowhead will make moveable player station bases even more common in hi sec. For missioners, miners or anyone else who might lose ship but wanting to stay working systems near station with medical clones.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#139 - 2014-12-02 22:20:38 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:


King Fu Hostile wrote:

It's not about the ISK, clone costs are trivial and literally nobody cares about them. However, the fear of losing skillpoints was not trivial, it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake. Now there's no fear anymore, you can lose your pod million times and it never means anything.



So you're saying that your fear is what is powering your epic killboard stats?

King Fu Hostile wrote:
I chose EVE because it had harsh consequences for mistakes, the possibility to lose skill points being the most important of these. Yes, losing a level V skill is indeed a negative experience (I've trained Astrometric Rangefinding V twice, herp derp), but the existence of such brutalities create the necessary contrast to positive experiences.

Without butthurt, there can be no joy either. This is the yin and yang of everything, and games aren't exceptions.



This is an ironic post coming from a posting alt



Shut your mouth if this is your main :DDD

br,

Roime https://zkillboard.com/character/1456935381/




Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2014-12-02 22:26:44 UTC
Udonor wrote:

*** In fact I assume null alliances will have noncombat players use new Bowhead to constantly haul non-capital replacement ships to staging area near blob battles (but still behind their defense lines such as they are). ****


Spoken like someone who truly has no clue about nullsec and is effectively suggesting we'd freighter ships to the front line