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Ships that need damage nerfs
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Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#61 - 2014-12-02 04:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
ShahFluffers wrote:
Deimos has less raw armor. 90% resistance is meaningless


oh my god

no way there's someone this dumb

i feel like i'm taking crazy pills

you realize we're talking about active tanks, right? and a deimos can tank a brutix with just one rep

meanwhile the brutix has to run both is reps hard just to keep up with the deimos. It's going to cap itself out before neuting out the deimos. Deimos can run a single rep and its guns just fine while being neuted

PS similarly-fit deimoses and brutixes have nearly equal EHP versus blasters

watch me be a scurb and get owned
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#62 - 2014-12-02 05:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Apologies... I didn't check the antimatter damage profile in EFT.

The Brutix and Deimos fit I have loaded in EFT are both running a single rep. And even with the Antimatter damage profile loaded the numbers are still close (within 50 to 90 dps)

I still stand by what I said earlier though; the Brutix's neut is going to, at best, make life VERY difficult for the Deimos and, at worst, **** it up. The Deimos NEEDS to pull range quickly or it will just be ground down.

How did you Veterans start?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2014-12-02 05:07:21 UTC
Viribus wrote:


why can't the deimos also fit an AB?


Because people will want to use that bonus to MWD the deimos gets and most people wont even think about an AB being an option. You didn't.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-12-02 05:08:37 UTC
Viribus wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Deimos has less raw armor. 90% resistance is meaningless


oh my god

no way there's someone this dumb

i feel like i'm taking crazy pills

you realize we're talking about active tanks, right? and a deimos can tank a brutix with just one rep

meanwhile the brutix has to run both is reps hard just to keep up with the deimos. It's going to cap itself out before neuting out the deimos. Deimos can run a single rep and its guns just fine while being neuted

PS similarly-fit deimoses and brutixes have nearly equal EHP versus blasters


Now put said Deimos up against a Hurricane Fleet Issue. Or the Brutix against an Apocalypse.

Easy to make the Deimos look strong and Brutix look weak when you're putting the Brutix right into the Deimos' resist strengths.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#65 - 2014-12-02 05:33:18 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I still stand by what I said earlier though; the Brutix's neut is going to, at best, make life VERY difficult for the Deimos and, at worst, **** it up. The Deimos NEEDS to pull range quickly or it will just be ground down.


the only thing the brutix's neut is going to make life difficult for is the brutix. It needs that cap way more than the deimos does

baltec1 wrote:
Because people will want to use that bonus to MWD the deimos gets and most people wont even think about an AB being an option. You didn't.


I didn't because both the brutix and deimos desperately need the mobility an MWD offers, unless you think people are just gonna hit approach on a blaster ship (they will not)

Also, it's idiotic goalpost-shifting to suppose the brutix has an AB and the deimos doesn't. Especially since an AB would be way better on a deimos anyway, since it actually has the ability to speedtank things

Lugia3 wrote:
Now put said Deimos up against a Hurricane Fleet Issue. Or the Brutix against an Apocalypse.

Easy to make the Deimos look strong and Brutix look weak when you're putting the Brutix right into the Deimos' resist strengths.


guess what

it wasn't my stupid idea to come up with a theoretical brutix-vs-deimos 1v1

especially since anyone with half a brain could predict the outcome of that fight

watch me be a scurb and get owned
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2014-12-02 05:45:28 UTC
Viribus wrote:


I didn't because both the brutix and deimos desperately need the mobility an MWD offers, unless you think people are just gonna hit approach on a blaster ship (they will not)

Also, it's idiotic goalpost-shifting to suppose the brutix has an AB and the deimos doesn't. Especially since an AB would be way better on a deimos anyway, since it actually has the ability to speedtank things



No, it doesn't desperately need a mwd. Hell, most brutix's don't even bother using an armour rep, they just slap on a shield buffer and go with a gang of tackle frigs as heavy and very mobile DPS.

The deimos gets a bonus to MWD not AB so no, its not better off with the AB. Its also not a case of shifting the goalposts as I was always on about using an AB brutix which has the fitting room for the neut.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#67 - 2014-12-02 05:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
baltec1 wrote:
[No, it doesn't desperately need a mwd. Hell, most brutix's don't even bother using an armour rep, they just slap on a shield buffer and go with a gang of tackle frigs as heavy and very mobile DPS.


i think we have wildly different definitions of "very mobile"

Quote:
The deimos gets a bonus to MWD not AB so no, its not better off with the AB.


what?

a ship with half the signature and nearly double the speed is worse off with an AB? you know the brutix doesn't get an AB bonus, right?

(hint: they both suck with an AB, but the deimos sucks less)

Quote:
Its also not a case of shifting the goalposts as I was always on about using an AB brutix which has the fitting room for the neut.


doesn't matter really anyway, MWD or AB the brutix would lose to a deimos 120% of the time

also AB battlecruisers are laughably bad

as in I'm literally laughing right now

watch me be a scurb and get owned
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2014-12-02 06:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Viribus wrote:


i think we have wildly different definitions of "very mobile"


1500m/s from a med gun, 830 dps BC is now apparently slow.


Viribus wrote:

what?

a ship with half the signature and nearly double the speed is worse off with an AB? you know the brutix doesn't get an AB bonus, right?

(hint: they both suck with an AB, but the deimos sucks less)



Deimos has the bonus to the mwd is what I was getting at. People don't like sacrificing that bonus and as you just demonstrated, they automatically think faster = better.
That speed means nothing when you have to enter scram/web range to do your damage and your target ship has the exact same range but more firepower and a neut.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#69 - 2014-12-02 06:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
baltec1 wrote:
1500m/s from a med gun, 830 dps BC is now apparently slow.


A nano brutix does like 1350, unless you're shifting goalposts again and assuming links

Quote:
Deimos has the bonus to the mwd is what I was getting at. People don't like sacrificing that bonus and as you just demonstrated, they automatically think faster = better.


if you want to actually catch anything instead of sitting on a gate and spamming "fight me pls" in local then yeah, an MWD is better

Quote:
That speed means nothing when you have to enter scram/web range to do your damage


however it does matter a lot for actually entering scram/web range

or running gatecamps

or burning out of bubbles

or any of the other uses for MWDs that apparently don't exist in whatever bizzaro EVE you're playing

Quote:
and your target ship has the exact same range but more firepower and a neut.


less range

slightly more firepower

and a neut that hurts the brutix more than the deimos, because (and you've completely glossed over this) T2 resists allow the deimos to tank the brutix on just one rep, while the brutix needs both to tank the deimos

how are you still not understanding this. Neuts hurt on both ends, you seem to think it's some sort of magical anathema to any active tank when it really isn't, especially when it's fit to a ship that already has cap problems

watch me be a scurb and get owned
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#70 - 2014-12-02 06:32:03 UTC
Post your fits. I have a feeling you are running some terribad Brutix fit against a really gimmiky Deimos fit just to make your point.

How did you Veterans start?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2014-12-02 06:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Viribus wrote:


A nano brutix does like 1350, unless you're shifting goalposts again and assuming links


Nanofibers, how do they work?

Viribus wrote:


if you want to actually catch anything instead of sitting on a gate and spamming "fight me pls" in local then yeah, an MWD is better


Remind us again on the engagement range of a blaster deimos.

Viribus wrote:

however it does matter a lot for actually entering scram/web range
or running gatecamps

or burning out of bubbles

or any of the other uses for MWDs that apparently don't exist in whatever bizzaro EVE you're playing


Oh no, a mod has some drawbacks and requires a different style of piloting. Thank god MWD have zero issues unless they get shut down by anything with a scram.

Viribus wrote:


less range

slightly more firepower

and a neut that hurts the brutix more than the deimos, because (and you've completely glossed over this) T2 resists allow the deimos to tank the brutix on just one rep, while the brutix needs both to tank the deimos

how are you still not understanding this. Neuts hurt on both ends, you seem to think it's some sort of magical anathema to any active tank when it really isn't, especially when it's fit to a ship that already has cap problems


Cap is stable at 67% on the brutix with the neut running so long as you have cap boosters. The deimos will run out of hull before you run out of cap in the brutix. Your extra range amounts to a mighty 2km more falloff with antimatter, a distance covered in less time than the refire rate of the guns.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2014-12-02 06:45:42 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Post your fits. I have a feeling you are running some terribad Brutix fit against a really gimmiky Deimos fit just to make your point.


Bog standard fits actually.

The problem here is we have people who never fit ships for themselves and thus, have no idea how things work. This whole thread is an example of why CCP ignores most posts around here, these people simply don't know how to use the tools they have been given to make ships work.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#73 - 2014-12-02 06:51:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The problem here is we have people who never fit ships for themselves and thus, have no idea how things work. This whole thread is an example of why CCP ignores most posts around here, these people simply don't know how to use the tools they have been given to make ships work.


boy you have no idea how right you are, for once

i can't believe i spent a portion of my finite lifespan arguing with someone who thinks AB brutixes are good

watch me be a scurb and get owned
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2014-12-02 06:56:42 UTC
Viribus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The problem here is we have people who never fit ships for themselves and thus, have no idea how things work. This whole thread is an example of why CCP ignores most posts around here, these people simply don't know how to use the tools they have been given to make ships work.


boy you have no idea how right you are, for once

i can't believe i spent a portion of my finite lifespan arguing with someone who thinks AB brutixes are good


Case in point.

I even had to tell you to use nanos on a ship you called a nano brutix.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#75 - 2014-12-02 07:01:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Case in point.

I even had to tell you to use nanos on a ship you called a nano brutix.


1350 is with a nano, genius

pvp master of GSF right here

watch me be a scurb and get owned
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2014-12-02 07:07:42 UTC
Viribus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Case in point.

I even had to tell you to use nanos on a ship you called a nano brutix.


1350 is with a nano, genius

pvp master of GSF right here


Yet here I am looking at 1500.

You are messing it up somehow, are you fitting plates?
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#77 - 2014-12-02 07:22:37 UTC
you need 3 nanos to break 1500

and using half your lows for nanos is just... a level of badness i didn't think possible

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-12-02 07:32:24 UTC
OP is suffering from survivor guilt. He has seen all his comrades fall while his Gallente ship survived and thrived. This has led him to believe his ship is unworthy and that all Gallente craft need to be gimped to enable the enemy to destroy him.

Nerfing Gallente is not the answer; therapy is.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2014-12-02 07:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Viribus wrote:
you need 3 nanos to break 1500

and using half your lows for nanos is just... a level of badness i didn't think possible

Two nanos. Also using nanos in the lows is very common.

As a side note, the brutix will allow for a 100mn AB to be fitted and still provide a 650 DPS platform.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#80 - 2014-12-02 09:12:34 UTC
Let's also nerf all the ships that:

- are faster than other ships
- are tankier than other ships
- have more range than other ships
- have some bonuses that other ships don't have
- look different
- have different names

also, Brutix is ****