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Abaddon L4 Fit Help
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Sindrisai Myr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-01 09:06:21 UTC
Looking to pick up an Abaddon to run L4 missions with, but could use some suggestions putting a fit together. I should be able to fit T2 for armor tank mods, as well as rigs and cap mods. Won't be able to fit T2 lasers for a while, but it will be my next goal after I finish L4/5'ing skills to max out CPU/Grid/Cap.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-12-01 10:28:39 UTC
Maybe look into the apocalypse, (or Armageddon if you have t2drones).
the geddon is really hard for a low skill point pilot to fit and use.

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Sindrisai Myr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-12-01 18:57:36 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Maybe look into the apocalypse, (or Armageddon if you have t2drones).
the geddon is really hard for a low skill point pilot to fit and use.

I've looked into both already, and the Armageddon isn't on my radar as I have Gal battleships trained, so if I wanted a drone boat I would be flying a Dominix. And as for the Apocalypse, the Abaddon comes with better base stats aside from the capacitor, and has more drone room. Apoc to me looks more like a ship that would be more suited for laser sniping, however I would prefer to be putting my existing armor skills to work rather than having to also dip into more sniping skills than I already have.

If the Apoc is actually much better than it looks on paper than the Abaddon, do tell me why.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-12-01 19:05:43 UTC
Apoc has better capacitor, both in size and recharge time. Apoc has tracking and optimal laser bonuses. Means you can more reliably hit rats, and hit them for longer without the cap running dry (which it will with low core skills and even with moderate core skills)

In missions, your armour hp aren't the most critical factor, it's how much you can rep per second and for how long.
Sindrisai Myr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-12-01 19:16:51 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Apoc has better capacitor, both in size and recharge time. Apoc has tracking and optimal laser bonuses. Means you can more reliably hit rats, and hit them for longer without the cap running dry (which it will with low core skills and even with moderate core skills)

In missions, your armour hp aren't the most critical factor, it's how much you can rep per second and for how long.


In Compare Tool, the Apoc only has a higher Capacitor, but its recharge is slightly worse than the Abaddons. Both ships Capacitors are much worse than my Hyperions though. Which brings me onto the point of armor hp and repairing. The Hyperion has the innate armor repair bonus, but is less capable of resistance tanking compared to the Abaddon. I did also fly both a Prophecy and a Myrmidon, and both ships tanks felt about equivalent. The Prophecy didn't have much problem staying full health because it just negated so much of the damage being thrown at it, where the Myrmidon would just repair a huge amount of damage every tick. But looking at the Apoc, it has neither innate resistance tanking bonuses or repper bonuses, so I'm failing to see how its a better choice aside from the fact its Capacitor battery is bigger than the Abaddons and it has better tracking (which can be fixed).

I'm just going off my own experience and what I'm seeing in stats here, so again, do point out flaws in my line of thinking here.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-12-01 19:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Sindrisai Myr wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Apoc has better capacitor, both in size and recharge time. Apoc has tracking and optimal laser bonuses. Means you can more reliably hit rats, and hit them for longer without the cap running dry (which it will with low core skills and even with moderate core skills)

In missions, your armour hp aren't the most critical factor, it's how much you can rep per second and for how long.


In Compare Tool, the Apoc only has a higher Capacitor, but its recharge is slightly worse than the Abaddons.


Errr.....
Apoc: Capacitor recharge time = 1000 seconds
Abaddon: Capacitor recharge time = 1250 seconds

How is recharging the capacitor from empty to full in 250 seconds less 'slightly worse'?

Don't under-estimate the usefulness of two damage application bonuses. If you can't hit the enemy ship (tracking), it doesn't matter how much raw damage you do. Sure, you can fit an extra tracking enhancer in a low slot, but then you're passing up more damage mods. Part of the goal in a L4 is to kill the rats fast, before they can hurt you too much. It's not raw damage you need for that, it's applied damage.

With a test fit that I ran up quick, the Abaddon runs dry on cap over a minute before the Apoc does.

Apoc is also faster with a slightly smaller sig, both will let you mitigate some damage. Not a lot, it is a battleship, but every bit counts.
Sindrisai Myr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-12-01 19:43:37 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Sindrisai Myr wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Apoc has better capacitor, both in size and recharge time. Apoc has tracking and optimal laser bonuses. Means you can more reliably hit rats, and hit them for longer without the cap running dry (which it will with low core skills and even with moderate core skills)

In missions, your armour hp aren't the most critical factor, it's how much you can rep per second and for how long.


In Compare Tool, the Apoc only has a higher Capacitor, but its recharge is slightly worse than the Abaddons.


Errr.....
Apoc: Capacitor recharge time = 1000 seconds
Abaddon: Capacitor recharge time = 1250 seconds

How is recharging the capacitor from empty to full in 250 seconds less 'slightly worse'?

Don't under-estimate the usefulness of two damage application bonuses. If you can't hit the enemy ship (tracking), it doesn't matter how much raw damage you do. Sure, you can fit an extra tracking enhancer in a low slot, but then you're passing up more damage mods


My bad on the capacitor, didn't get a lot of sleep and just got back from morning class so I'm being dumb. And I'm definitely not underestimating the tracking bonus of the Apoc, I know how important tracking is. However I would prefer a ship that I know is going to be durable enough to take whatever pounding an L4 is going to throw at it. And yes I know I could fly a Dominix if I wanted just that, but the Dominix playstyle is far too passive for my taste. I'm just looking for some up to date Abaddon fits. I can also use it as a base for coming up with some Apoc fits and then seeing which I would rather use for myself.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-12-01 20:41:09 UTC
armour resistance bonus isn't all that useful in pve since there's no such thing as passive armour tanking.

Abaddon is just not a good self-sufficient mission boat as you have to fit it with a cap booster for it to even slightly work, large guns vs small targets just doesn't work at the ranges an abaddon will be able to shoot at, whereas the apoc can pick them off from very far away before they get a chance of pulling any radial on you.

The problem is compounded when you have a weaker cap on abaddon and you have to let things get closer since that means you take more damage and therefore have to use your repper more.

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Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-12-01 20:46:53 UTC
The Abaddon's tanking bonus is wasted in L4 missions and its damage bonus is inferior to the projection and application bonuses on the Apoc. This combined with Apoc's much stronger capacitor makes the Apoc superior to the Abaddon in every way for missions. And then there is the Navy Apoc.

There are no up to date Abaddon PVE fits because nobody uses the Abaddon for PVE.
Sindrisai Myr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-12-01 22:19:24 UTC
Well that's unfortunate. So if the Apocalypse/Navy Apoc are flat out better, would you recommend it as an alternative or an upgrade to the Hyperion I'm currently flying?
Paranoid Loyd
#11 - 2014-12-01 22:23:47 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Good advice as usual.

Nice to see you back, your absence was noted.

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Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#12 - 2014-12-01 22:28:28 UTC
I'm basically going to echo what everyone else said, the Abaddon may look better on paper because of the damage bonus but the weak capacitor means you'll have to dedicate more modules to cap so you end up with worse applied dps. Range bonuses are also very valuable on a L4 mission boat since spawns tend to be far away and it also allows you to use higher damage ammo at a longer range giving you more applied dps. However both ships shine much better with T2 Pulse lasers. Till you get T2 Pulse lasers with Scorch, you're pretty much forced into using beams for either the Abaddon or Apocalypse but once you get T2 Pulse lasers you'll be able to hit out to 80km with Scorch on an Apoc.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-12-01 22:36:58 UTC
The Abaddon's resist bonus makes for an awesome buffer tank, but it's active tank sucks hard because it barely even has enough capacitor to keep it's guns shooting even with good skills.
On top of that it lacks tracking - which you can't really compensate for with tracking computers because you need those slots for cap mods.
The only PvE use for the Abaddon I know of is tanking sleepers in C5/6 cap escalations. (buffer tanked of course)

Navy/Apoc is awesome for L4s. Tanks like a beast and can apply the damage really well.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2014-12-01 23:21:47 UTC
Bear in mind that this advice is being given with good cap ,bs and lozor skills in mind.

With lower levels the issues detailed above will be compounded consconsiderably.

I strongly recommend the navy apocalypse, great ship, a pleasure to fly and looks fantastic.

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#15 - 2014-12-02 00:46:11 UTC
About that capacitor: Fit a cap booster.

Also a reactive armor hardener has great synergy with the armor resist bonus. Then fit three nano pumps and you will only need to pulse the repper. The rest is mostly damage and application, so you won't have to stick around in a mission for too long.

But really, you need good skills for a PvE Abaddon. The Apocalypse is much more user friendly.

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Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#16 - 2014-12-02 03:08:05 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
About that capacitor: Fit a cap booster.

Also a reactive armor hardener has great synergy with the armor resist bonus. Then fit three nano pumps and you will only need to pulse the repper. The rest is mostly damage and application, so you won't have to stick around in a mission for too long.

But really, you need good skills for a PvE Abaddon. The Apocalypse is much more user friendly.


To give you an idea how bad the cap on a baddon is, with perfect skills, you can't even just fire your guns cap stable with 2x T2 Energy Discharge rigs + 1 CCC rig + 1 cap recharger. What happens is your cap is so bad that when your tank starts getting pressured and you have to run your repper constantly, you will just burn through cap boosters so fast that you can actually run out on longer missions. I know this cause I ran a L4 Baddon way back in the day with this fit:

[Abaddon, L4s]

Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

The Apoc is just better, the far superior cap allows you to focus on damage and application so you end up with more actual dps than the Baddon. Eventually I swapped to an Apoc that performed far better than the Baddon with this fit:

[Apocalypse, L4s New]

Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x2
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2014-12-02 06:00:36 UTC
with 4 cap mods and 3 cap rigs the abaddon becomes cap stable, with 3 cap mods and 3 cap rigs it drains in a few minutes. it used to be worse but somewhere along the line they lowered cap use on large lasers. that is what I have against the abaddon.

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Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-12-02 16:54:45 UTC
the abaddon is a barely passable mission ship if you manage to cram faction tachs onto it. something like this will get you through the day, but it's a tight fit, has too much bling to be flown in busy systems and still suffers from cap issues unless you support it with expensive cap implants and/or a fleet booster:

[Abaddon]

Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
100MN Afterburner II

Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Ancillary Current Router II


Tl;DR: get an apocalypse.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Altair Taurus
#19 - 2014-12-04 18:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Quote:
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L


ROTFL! Price of these lasers alone is higher than price of Nightmare! Forget all Amarrian T1 BS crap and get Nightmare right away.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-12-05 12:51:36 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Good advice as usual.

Nice to see you back, your absence was noted.


I feelz all fuzzy inside now :3

Art of Explosions