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@ CCP, why do you have rules that you refuse to enforce?
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#201 - 2011-12-15 20:09:32 UTC
the basic problem is horrible aspies like cipher jones have no social skills so they think that having friends is cheating

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#202 - 2011-12-15 20:18:40 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
the basic problem is horrible aspies like cipher jones have no social skills so they think that having friends is cheating


Only if you're lucky.... Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#203 - 2011-12-15 20:55:29 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
The line between playing within the rules and when it goes over into griefing ire just too vague in EVE. And CCP just lacks the backbone to put up simple but very clear rules about what exactly is griefing.

On one side they put in their EULA that grieging is prohibited but on the other side they allow certain gamestyles which are commonly accepted as griefing in virtually all other MMO's.

THAT is the problem.
No, that is CCP's statement on what is allowed in EVE. You're just too busy crying too hear what they are saying.

CCP could change the rules tomorrow if they wanted to. They don't want to.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#204 - 2011-12-15 21:08:27 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
The line between playing within the rules and when it goes over into griefing ire just too vague in EVE. And CCP just lacks the backbone to put up simple but very clear rules about what exactly is griefing.

On one side they put in their EULA that grieging is prohibited but on the other side they allow certain gamestyles which are commonly accepted as griefing in virtually all other MMO's.

THAT is the problem.
No, that is CCP's statement on what is allowed in EVE. You're just too busy crying too hear what they are saying.

CCP could change the rules tomorrow if they wanted to. They don't want to.


The rules are there, the question is when will they exercise the option to enforce?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Mag's
Azn Empire
#205 - 2011-12-15 21:11:18 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
The line between playing within the rules and when it goes over into griefing ire just too vague in EVE. And CCP just lacks the backbone to put up simple but very clear rules about what exactly is griefing.

On one side they put in their EULA that grieging is prohibited but on the other side they allow certain gamestyles which are commonly accepted as griefing in virtually all other MMO's.

THAT is the problem.
No, that is CCP's statement on what is allowed in EVE. You're just too busy crying too hear what they are saying.

CCP could change the rules tomorrow if they wanted to. They don't want to.


The rules are there, the question is when will they exercise the option to enforce?
No the question is are your definitions of griefing, the ones CCP use. Obviously not.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#206 - 2011-12-15 21:17:02 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
The rules are there, the question is when will they exercise the option to enforce?


Kinda curious now as to how long your going to keep going with this 'kid who got pushed off the swings at the playground' attitude.

Nothing is broken.
Nothing needs to be fixed.
Nothing is going to change.

You adapt, you overcome, or you continue to die.

God forbid theres a game that actually forces you to learn from your mistakes.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#207 - 2011-12-15 21:17:29 UTC
How dare someone blow me up in safer space.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#208 - 2011-12-15 21:29:23 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
The rules are there, the question is when will they exercise the option to enforce?


Kinda curious now as to how long your going to keep going with this 'kid who got pushed off the swings at the playground' attitude.

Nothing is broken.
Nothing needs to be fixed.
Nothing is going to change.

You adapt, you overcome, or you continue to die.

God forbid theres a game that actually forces you to learn from your mistakes.


You are saying there is no griefing in EvE by CCP's definition and that I am wrong. That is fine, keep saying it. It honestly amuses me. The personal insults are wonderful. Keep them coming. "Owned by logic" indeed.

CCP understands and recognizes that a high attrition rate is bad for the game, and their actions affirm their words. If they choose not to answer why, or address the matter at all, so be it. I am asking them to.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Freezehunter
#209 - 2011-12-15 21:30:58 UTC
I'll be honest now...

I've been playing this game since 2006, and I've been in 0.0 and empire for quite a long time.

I've mined in 0.0 and Empire, I've done complexes and went ratting in 0.0, as well as done missions and mined in Empire.

In all of these years, I have never lost a ship to another player in Empire, without either being at war or intentionally looking for trouble.

I've literally done missions and mined in Hulks for days on end in empire without having a single issue, EVER.

What I can't understand is, where the hell do you people all go and get your Hulks destroyed at?

I've never lost a hulk, ever, not in 0.0, not in empire.

The only ships I've ever lost in empire in stupid ways were:

A Catalyst, back in 2007, when I went against two interceptors in Korsiki, while I was at war in Eve university.
That mistake got me kicked from Euni due to arguing with the FC over his idiotic *stay docked* rule, and it also got me put on Eve University's The Departed list.

A Brutix, which happened to be my very first BC.
Lost it while learning the hard way that going to a 0.4 system should not be done without checking the ******* map for gate camps first. Happened on the other side of the Airaken gate.

A Raven while in a mission, because my internet got interrupted.
A Drake for the same reason.

I DO NOT get how people lose Hulks in Empire.

If you are dumb enough to lose a Hulk, which can be tanked with 20k+ EHP, in EMPIRE, then you deserve to lose it.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#210 - 2011-12-15 21:33:42 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

You are saying there is no griefing in EvE by CCP's definition and that I am wrong. That is fine, keep saying it. It honestly amuses me. The personal insults are wonderful. Keep them coming. "Owned by logic" indeed.

CCP understands and recognizes that a high attrition rate is bad for the game, and their actions affirm their words. If they choose not to answer why, or address the matter at all, so be it. I am asking them to.



I don't think CCP is overly concerned about their attrition rate, when the average player sports 3-4 accounts funded by PLEX that some hopeless carebear similar to you purchased to turn into ISK. This game is 8 years old this month, scamming, suicide ganking, backstabbing, political intrigue, market manipulation, manipulating timers and all these other 'bad' activity have been with us throughout.

I'll say it again- Adapt and Overcome or be a sheep and die. Go find someone thats been playing since '03 or '04 and tell them you think the game is hard. Let me know how long it takes them to laugh at you.

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#211 - 2011-12-15 21:34:12 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
The rules are there, the question is when will they exercise the option to enforce?
When they see fit. Which is rather the point.

When CCP see something they accept as greifing, you will know it.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#212 - 2011-12-15 21:37:02 UTC
To be fair its incredibly easy to lose a hulk in empire since most of the people flying them are either very lazy, or very casual players, or bots. There is only so much tank you can put on a hulk and even super uber links maxed out tanks will die to 2 or 3 arty pocs/pests.

You can be semi aware of an incoming gank but lets face it, if you are going to mine and be alert at all times it's actually far safer to mine in low sec or null where you are at least going to be paranoid about everyone in system. It's harder to filter out the general public in high sec empire.

Finally, while hulkageddon etc is going on, I am always surprised that people dont simply switch out to a mining rokh or similar battleship. They dont mine so much under yield from a hulk and take considerably more effort to gank while costing less to lose, insured or not.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#213 - 2011-12-15 21:41:10 UTC
Quote:
I don't think CCP is overly concerned about their attrition rate, when the average player sports 3-4 accounts funded by PLEX...


Right. So allowing people to be harassed out of the game is a brilliant strategy when they have the potential for 45-60 dollars a month income.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#214 - 2011-12-15 21:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cipher Jones wrote:
You are saying there is no griefing in EvE by CCP's definition and that I am wrong.
No. He's saying that what you define as griefing does not exist as instances of griefing of EVE, because it doesn't match CCP's definition. I can't recall anyone saying that there is no griefing in EVE. It's just that it isn't what you want it to be.

Quote:
CCP understands and recognizes that a high attrition rate is bad for the game, and their actions affirm their words.
What actions and what words?
You make it sound like they are indeed, and contrary to your claims, enforcing the rules they have…

So which one is it?
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#215 - 2011-12-15 21:43:53 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
I don't think CCP is overly concerned about their attrition rate, when the average player sports 3-4 accounts funded by PLEX...


Right. So allowing people to be harassed out of the game is a brilliant strategy when they have the potential for 45-60 dollars a month income.



PLEX's are purchased regardless of their use.. that 3-4 account person that quit is just one less person to buy PLEX.. so technically, they havn't lost any money yet. The PLEX is still there, someone else will use it, and regardless of use, CCP already made more then a basic account sub, when a plex is 34.99 and a monthly sub is 14.99.

More cyclical-argument pl0x. I almost had to think that time.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#216 - 2011-12-15 21:49:48 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
the basic problem is horrible aspies like cipher jones have no social skills so they think that having friends is cheating

I take offense at that! I'm aspie and I have great social... oh wait...

Anyway, most non aspies are worse than aspies anyway. Way too quick to take offense, not understanding obscure jokes...
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2011-12-16 00:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Cipher Jones wrote:
If they choose not to answer why, or address the matter at all, so be it. I am asking them to.


They have said many, many times that suicide ganking is not griefing. You crying about it all the time on the forums doesn't change that.

Cipher Jones wrote:
Right. So allowing people to be harassed out of the game is a brilliant strategy when they have the potential for 45-60 dollars a month income.

You have zero proof for this is actually happening in any meaningful number.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#218 - 2011-12-16 01:04:15 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If they choose not to answer why, or address the matter at all, so be it. I am asking them to.


They have said many, many times that suicide ganking is not griefing. You crying about it all the time on the forums doesn't change that.

Cipher Jones wrote:
Right. So allowing people to be harassed out of the game is a brilliant strategy when they have the potential for 45-60 dollars a month income.

You have zero proof for this is actually happening in any meaningful number.


If you think what I am doing is crying on the forums and you respond to it, you are a right honorable tool.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#219 - 2011-12-16 01:10:09 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you think what I am doing is crying on the forums and you respond to it, you are a right honorable tool.


You whiteknighting yourself after losing the same argument page after page, makes you look like a tool.
Jarod Leercap
On Three 125
#220 - 2011-12-16 02:34:56 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Jarod Leercap wrote:
...The bottom line is that you're going to experience an economic loss one way or the other until your hunter decides to move on for his or her own reasons. If you have sufficient spite and resources, you might be able to snag a hunter a time or two, but that probably won't be what sends him or her packing. ...


Just having a PVP fit alone won't cut it. You need a plan, and you need to lure him to your chosen (prepared) battlefield.

You do not always have to run level 4's.

Nor do you have to run your missions alone, or with a (visible) companion or two.


Well, my point is that while you can do things to respond, all involve opportunity cost on your part. If you're running a less rewarding mission than you normally would, that's an opportunity cost. If you are splitting a mission you'd normally solo, that's an opportunity cost.

A trap is at least an active response, but setting it up involves opportunity cost, the hunter doesn't have to fly into it, and even if he or she does and loses a ship or pod, he or she can re-ship/clone and return.

On balance, there is a cost to a war dec and an opportunity cost to camping. However, there is a lot of potential for a small organization to impose a disproportionate opportunity cost on a larger one with little more than patience.