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Cross training - a couple of questions!
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Ayea Haginen
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-12-15 16:55:54 UTC
Serveral questions really I was after your views on the matter

1) Does crosstraining pay off, or is it better to go “pure”
2) Assuming its better to go pure to begin with, at which point does branching off begin to make sense
3) What are good crosstrain race combinations?
4) Does crosstraining add or remove vaule from a character on the character bizarre?
5) How about cross training 1 race pure combat and industry? Worth it, or are you better with a second account alt.

Any hints and tips?

Thanks in advance – Ayea
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-15 17:16:05 UTC
1)Cross training opens up some good options for a low training investment, variety is fun and all that

2) I guess once you have your core sorted or you feel comfortable with what you have

3) Gallente / Amarr seems super easy, Gallente and Minmatar opens up good options with the pirate frigs.

4) No idea.

5) I'd go for the two accounts.

I lied :o
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2011-12-15 18:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Esna Pitoojee
1) Yes, it pays off in time. Since no race is better accross the board, crosstraining opens up varying options for you to work with.

2) First off, it generally is better to go pure for a while. Second, as Drew said above me, get your core stuff sorted first - the basic and mid-level engineering, electronics, and mechanics skills are a good place to start, plus some of the gunnery support skills. Once that's done, I seriously reccomend getting into Cruiser/battlecruiser hulls with tech 2 weapons for your given faction first, though that's not absolutely neccesary.

3)Gal / Amarr, as was said, is easy since they are both armor-tanking, turret-based races with drones as a secondary weapon. Gal/Minmatar has some overlap as well - the turrets and armor tanking for some Min hulls - and Cal/Minmatar overlaps to a smaller degree (some Minmatar ships shield tank, and some use missiles as a primary weapon). Just about the only combo that doesn't have much overlap at all is Cal / Amarr - only a handful of Amarr shps can be shield-fit, meaning your main benefit is access to Sansha faction ships (which can be quite pricy for a starting character).

4) I don't think crosstraining alone does either. If you crosstrain to the neglect of support skills, or end up with a situation where you can fly 3 races' ships but not use their T2 weapons, then yes, that will cut value. Conversely, crosstraining after the proper support skills are done can easily increease the value of a 'toon.

5) I've seen this done before to mixed results, but until you hit the higher SP ranges I can't honestly reccomend it.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2011-12-15 19:03:19 UTC
1. Yeah, it can pay off -- especially if you get into a corp that has fleet doctrines (e.g. all amarr BS or something).

2. It's better to stay pure until you get to somewhere you feel comfortable. Now, let's say you want lasers ... but didn't realise it was Amarr. OK, ditch Caldari right now, and stick to training purely Amarr for a while before jumping over to Minmatar. Essentially, you don't want to spread yourself too thin -- if you have 5m SP between all four races' frigs/dessies, and their weapons systems, and support skills ... you're going to be worse off than if you had 5m SP in Caldari Frigate/Destroyer, small missile skills, shield skills, and the relevant support skills.

3. essentially look at the pirate faction ships as a rough guide ... but at some point, having the skills to fly all four racial variations of a specific class of ship will come in handy.

4. Don't know, never bothered with character bazaar.

5. You *can* do it, but you'll be less skilled in both for a while. HOWEVER, you should not forgo PVP skills even if you're training industry skills. The tanking/fitting skills help no matter what you're flying, and if you can hop in a cruiser or battlecruiser with decent skills, it's great during a wardec.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2011-12-15 23:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I'm of jack of all trades, though I primarily focus on combat now as I have several alts for industry. I still mine though.

I just accept that I'll be slower to master stuff than somebody with more focus. I can't handle plans longer than 90 days, and even that is tough for me. I can do a heckuva lot of stuff though.

I'm currently cross-training from Caldari to Minmatar. Currently training Minmatar BS4.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-15 23:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Ayea Haginen wrote:
1) Does crosstraining pay off, or is it better to go “pure”


It pays off, but isn't something that should be considered straight off, Focus on the race that looks like it suits your style the most, and stick with it. Keep in mind, maxing fitting/support skills is something you only have to do once, and racial skills are typically just ship types and weapons. Get your Engineering, Electronics and Mechanic skills in, as well as whatever else you may need, then max out your ship choices. A good time to start to cross-train is the 20-30M SP zone.

Ayea Haginen wrote:
2) Assuming its better to go pure to begin with, at which point does branching off begin to make sense


See above.

Ayea Haginen wrote:
3) What are good crosstrain race combinations?


Minmatar/Gallente is a popular PvP Crosstrain, Minmatar and Amarr unlocks the Bhaalgorn, and Caldari Amarr is the PvE crosstrain choice for the Nightmare, Caldari and Gallente is also prime for PvE Crosstraining with the Rattlesnake, Most of the options require high skills, and having both racial ship types at V is key to maximizing their potential.

Pirate Cruisers/Frigs can be flown well at each racial at IV, but they really come into their own at Level V

Ayea Haginen wrote:
4) Does crosstraining add or remove vaule from a character on the character bizarre?


If you are completely spec'd into your cross train, you will be worth signifigantly more ISK, if you are only partially trained in to your second race, you will actually be worth less in most occasions.

Ayea Haginen wrote:
5) How about cross training 1 race pure combat and industry? Worth it, or are you better with a second account alt.


I'd definitely look into either subbing or buying a second account for this, you can buy a really well skilled Industrial toon, that can fly freighters, orcas, and build just about everything for 5-8b

Hope that helps.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-12-16 00:35:47 UTC
Xolve speaks the truth. Avoid cross-training early in your career for any significant length of time. A day or two is fine, but any more than that and you will regret it later.

One of the main reasons for this is that specialization is the easiest way for a new player to be competitive with veterans. If you cross-train excessively too early in your career then you will lose this edge.
Nullshadow
Vacancy Pulse
#8 - 2011-12-16 02:11:21 UTC
While I would generally agree that you should avoid early cross-training, I would also suggest that you research fits for ships you are likely to fly and skill towards those, and that could involve a bit of cross-training. In particular there are some solid fits for the Merlin (Caldari) and Punisher (Amarr) that use unbonused Projectile weapons rather than the hybrid or laser weapons that you would expect for those ships based on their listed bonuses.

This is because (1) the weapon bonuses these hulls get are not compelling to some combat styles, (2) small projectiles can be easier to fit alongside the other "required" PvP modules on those ships (especially for newer players with less-developed fitting skills), and (3) projectiles do not use capacitor to fire and thus can keep firing even if you run dry due to overuse of propulsion mods or from capacitor warfare (again especially true for newer players with less-developed capacitor and navigation skills)*.

So you might find that it is worthwhile to get Small Projectile Turrets to IV (or even V and learn the T2 specializations) if you are going to use those ship fits. That's something you will have to decide for yourself, as it is a matter more of choice than necessity.


* Also, (4) Projectiles really are that good right now, but that will probably change someday.