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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Eliminate learning implants

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Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-11-27 18:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
New players have to choose between having fun and learning faster (with +4 implants). Learning implants almost punish (new players) when they want to play the game, eliminate them and increase the attributes by 2 or 3.

Older players can afford to take it easy with the training, and play without implants, but for new players the learning implants are a curse.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2014-11-27 18:20:11 UTC
Learning implants are not mandatory, I have never injected any. They are also not a restricting factor in pvp, that is entirely down to the player who will frankly just find another excuse to not pvp if these changes ever happened.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2014-11-27 18:25:01 UTC
How are 2 +3 in your head a curse? Get better at making money and stop sitting afk in station.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2014-11-27 18:25:18 UTC
Supported.

All implants should be ones that make your ship better while you are flying it. If you want people to get hooked on Eve, you need mechanisms that get people out of the station, interacting with other players, as much as possible. Even with JC timer reduction and more JC's, learning implants do not encourage getting out in space.

So what to do with existing implants? On patch day, unplug them all. Convert them all into the components to build new implants. Add a couple of new types of useful implants. Make all implants player produced. LP stores would offer BPC's for implants, not the finished product.

Losing a pod would still have consequences, but they would be immediate and would tend to encourage folks to undock more often, not less often.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#5 - 2014-11-27 18:27:24 UTC
Tian Toralen wrote:
New players have to choose between having fun and learning faster (with +4 implants). Learning implants almost punish (new players) when they want to play the game, eliminate them and increase the attributes by 2 or 3.

Older players can afford to take it easy with the training, and play without implants, but for new players the learning implants are a curse.
Utter tosh.
I have used implants from day one on every character I have played. Implants have never stopped me from PvP.

If you have an issue with implants and PvP, then it is exactly that. Your issue.

Plus this is also a prime candidate for Malcanis Law.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2014-11-27 18:28:26 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
All implants should be ones that make your ship better while you are flying it. If you want people to get hooked on Eve, you need mechanisms that get people out of the station, interacting with other players, as much as possible. Even with JC timer reduction and more JC's, learning implants do not encourage getting out in space.

Earning money (missions, anoms, DED, explore) to learn faster is no incentive to bring people out of station?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2014-11-27 18:45:25 UTC
+3s are about 8 mill each so thats only 16mill if you get podded
+4s are only around 25mill so its only 50


not a lot of isk considering you should only be losing a pod if you are bubbled or run into a smart bomb

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
CW Itovuo
The Executioners
#8 - 2014-11-27 19:12:10 UTC
Mag's wrote:


If you have an issue with implants and PvP, then it is exactly that. Your issue.



+1


Train up Infomorph Psychology to at least 4.
Drop corp.
Join Estel Arador Corp Services [EACS].
Create clone.
Create clone.
Create clone.
Create clone.
Make voluntary ISK contribution.
Drop corp.
Rejoin original corp.
Pimp your new clones however you see fit.
Train Infomorph Synchronizing to 4 and you can jump between clones once every 20 hours.



Learning implants will speed up your training queue, but it's always going to be an uphill battle.
Fonton
Robot Head
#9 - 2014-11-27 19:38:24 UTC
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2014-11-27 19:44:24 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
+3s are about 8 mill each so thats only 16mill if you get podded
+4s are only around 25mill so its only 50


not a lot of isk considering you should only be losing a pod if you are bubbled or run into a smart bomb

This. I would think now that the skill queue is so large, the relative power of remaps vs implants is easy to see. The difference between +3s and +4s (extremely affordable to anyone) and +5s is also sort of trivial given the difference in price, as with lots of the items in the game.

Philosophically it may seem absurd, and you may have something there, but in practice you really do not lose all that much by flying around in a slightly sub-optimal clone/implant set.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#11 - 2014-11-27 20:02:48 UTC
i'd like to confirm that i don't use learning implants and i do pvp i don't use learning implants because they take up room that snakes/slaves/all the other pirate sets need so for this reason i agree get rid of learning implants and just let everyone use pirate sets :D
Fonton
Robot Head
#12 - 2014-11-27 20:14:48 UTC
Remove implants, boost first half of year with +5 bonus to characteristics. Then lower bonus to one or two every 3 month/half of year.

  • Newbies have fast start
  • Old ones need to buy imps for continue bonus
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#13 - 2014-11-27 20:50:37 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
ppl who like PvP are less likely to use costly implants because they want to pvp
ppl who like to train fast will rarely PvP because they want to train fast

so it really comes down to attitude/priorities. Since the OP's idea is to swap implants for a permanent +3, why dnt all those afraid of losing implants swap out for +3's now and PvP to their hearts content? This option has been available to u since the beginning.

All that said, im pro removal. they are kinda like learning skills where u have to train cybernetics to some level, and fit implants of some power. its just not clever to not have implants of +3 or +4.

if ppl care, ive never used a +5 in three four years of the game, though i do have the skills to fit them.




thankyou so much for posting a link to that previous thread.

the argument that implants prevent you from PvP'ing is silly, its more likely that players use the implants that suit their style of play (or size of wallet). However the near mandatory use of learning implants is a bit 'ugh'.

implants are only a curse for players that put WAY too much value on SP/hour.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#14 - 2014-11-27 21:01:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Learning implants are not mandatory, I have never injected any. They are also not a restricting factor in pvp, that is entirely down to the player who will frankly just find another excuse to not pvp if these changes ever happened.


Well then it's no loss isn't it?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2014-11-27 22:35:47 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Learning implants are not mandatory, I have never injected any. They are also not a restricting factor in pvp, that is entirely down to the player who will frankly just find another excuse to not pvp if these changes ever happened.


Well then it's no loss isn't it?


Its the loss of a choice so yes it is.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-11-28 01:00:04 UTC
Fonton wrote:
Remove implants, boost first half of year with +5 bonus to characteristics. Then lower bonus to one or two every 3 month/half of year.

  • Newbies have fast start
  • Old ones need to buy imps for continue bonus



have you evemon'd +5's? Guessing not.

They only work well, imo, on long trains. Long as in skills are around the 30 day mark. 30 per skill...need to clarify that with the unlimited skill trains now. +5's on the 7-10 day trains common to noobs for a few level 5's knock off very little time. Its hours.


I have seen this often in actual practice with +4's. If I JC out from the +4 clone with the 30 day fresh on the list...yes I see a big time difference. If I do the the same with that 30 dayer now at a few days to a week....the time difference is hours.

That and I went to 0.0 very early in my eve career. Like 2 months from sub start. +3's got my my trains in decent timeframe. Fleet frigs, bc, bs all under 1 year. And the 3's cheap enough to lose often an added bonus.

Key is to find a pvp home that is noob friendly. And knows the fleet that fails to bring support in BC and below may fail. Seen this too....the bs and above only fleets ass handed to them hard. Because cruisers and BC's....tend to kill say hics much better imo. Slight matter of them being more able to respond to new threats faster. And well....can actually hit them well. Vice a bs now not firing at the dread anymore to kill the hic (slowly and badly usually) so the dread he was firing at lives longer to fire at something else.



Well that and you are assuming people run +5's by choice even if they could. They don't. Its more common for bears in empire with no desire to ever pvp to run pirate implants. As those say crystals will serve them better to make isk than the +5's ever will. I did this on a long empire break. Even when HG's only gave +3 boosts. Looking at the big picture....I made out much better that I would have with +5's.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#17 - 2014-11-28 01:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Oh good. It's this useless thread again.

Learn to search and leave my learning implants alone.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#18 - 2014-11-28 02:33:27 UTC
Dude, no

The idea having them exsist does not intefere with noobs doing anything.

They are not mandatory.....its a choice to spend ISK on them.
Dont take the choice of doing something from the community.
Quit QQ
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#19 - 2014-11-28 02:35:41 UTC
Making this suggestion should result in being given a negative wallet balance, it's that bad.

Reported for duplicating about twenty previously locked, equally stupid topics.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#20 - 2014-11-28 04:08:42 UTC
Quote:
17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

Thread closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department