These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#741 - 2014-11-25 21:20:57 UTC
Cyrus Doul wrote:
irion felpamy wrote:
Cyrus Doul wrote:
I isbox 5 accounts and i do still pay for the game with CC, and have to buy plex to sell all the time to make isk, 6 years into this game and I'm still terrible

Also for the love of god people. when someone isboxes and gets enough to run 20 accounts. that IS 20 SUBS WORTH OF MONEY! its actually more as month to month is 15 dollars for a total of 300 a month. where plex is 20 dollars for a total of 400 a month. CCP makes more off isboxers then they do you.


This is the saddest thing I have ever heard I will assume its a troll just to cheer myself up.


No, not a troll. In college i used to play this game a lot, only had 2 then three accounts, but paid for by spending my weekends not studying for the classes i was taking (B+ student, cept for math that was like Q-) and getting plex when they were like 300 million.

Now i work like 60 hours a week and make enough that converting an hour of real work to isk > amount of isk i can make in an hour unless i get an officer or something. Leaves me time for doing things like stalking our JF's with the dread fleet and all that, 12 hour long weekend tower bash fleets. You know, the fun stuff.

Don't ban isboxer, ban PLEX :) Im just going to set up isboxer to hot key f3 to next character. f1 and f2 start the gun, f3 rotates though. I can press 3 buttons five times in a second or two and its not replicating clicks!


ISBoxer isn't banned.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises
#742 - 2014-11-25 21:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Fiberton
Nituspar wrote:
As someone who has extensively used ISBoxer for the last year I'd like to thank CCP for having the courage to make this change, and the way it's being implemented.

The grace time will allow people who invested heavily into the program some reprieve to make their investments back, and the general playerbase will not have to deal with singular people wiping out their fleets or multi-billion ships anymore, which was always terrible gameplay.

I believe this is a very positive change to New Eden, and the short-term loss of subscriber revenue will be more than made up for in the long run by players enjoying the game more as a result of it

Thumbs up and keep up the good work CCP


As a person who has never used ISboxer but realize that CCP needs fluff subscribers to pad the wallet.

I am thinking Eve loses 5 to 8% of its logins and I would assume that is a draw of atleast 300k per month in revenue. I am just some nerd who trades stocks for a living and well.. A company that makes a change that loses them revenue on purpose...boggles my mind. About the change.. CCP your stones are bigger than mine. I could never do it just for the sheer cost.

“Out of clutter, find simplicity. From discord, find harmony. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” --  Albert  Einstein  "War is a mere continuation of politics by other means,"

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#743 - 2014-11-25 21:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
Stygian Soul wrote:
lots of text about mining...

Multibox miners: Inconvenienced with a very heavy handed ban threat for attempting to save a little time and a lot of clicks.


I agree with this. To be honest, this doesn't really affect miners much except for the handful of people that use more than about 20 accounts to mine.

Mining will still be possible with isboxer up to about 20 miners without broadcasting. It just makes it a little more annoying. Which is pretty much CCP's answer to any issues, such as with Jump Fatigue. I see a recurring trend here with CCP's "game" design decisions.
Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#744 - 2014-11-25 21:21:51 UTC
Wow. I'm glad to see an update on this, I wonder how many subbed account CCP is going to lose because of this choice though.

Either way this will make certain activities more profitable in game for industrial folks.

Also taken from Reddit. Plex prices already on the down tick?

http://i.imgur.com/sSlIhZp.jpg

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
Requiem Eternal
#745 - 2014-11-25 21:21:53 UTC
Aequitae wrote:
As a small time multiboxer using 2-3 pilots at most, I am not happy with the changes.
I feel it takes away something from the game that I like to do on a small scale, because it's the only way I feel I can achieve some things in say lowsec without a bloody link-alt.

For me, this is a reason to reconsider paying my 9 accounts with actual cash. (No I don't multibox to plex)


I feel ya, I multibox for fun tho :) I pay With real Money for plex tho.. and the Challenge also have something to say :D :/ :)
Aequitae
Swamphole Inc.
#746 - 2014-11-25 21:22:37 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:



ISBoxer isn't banned.[/quote]

Essentially it is. There's no point paying 50 dollar per year for only the permission to rearrange my screens.
Cyrus Doul
kotitekoinen sissijuusto
#747 - 2014-11-25 21:25:23 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Cyrus Doul wrote:
Mumm. more like pay to efficently use the UI. If i could have a little loadout window that had like 3 buttons that said

Cap
Shoot
Turtle

without having to dig all five accounts deep into the fittings pages



  1. Open fitting window
  2. Click "Browse"
  3. Shift+Drag saved fittings window to existing pile of chat windows


Perhaps add a "little things" post asking for saved fittings to be faster to apply (e.g.: drag to hangar or double-click or right-click->apply).


The problem with that is that although each of the five dreads can fly the dreads the same, they all do other things too. if you have 1 more fitting then the others things go to hell after the "Click "Browse"" step because one guy has

Assault frig
battleship
dreadnought

and the other hasn't got assault frig or something. as it stands now you have to be placed perfectly pixel wise or isboxer will end up basically removing your fit and not having anything to put in cause you told your dread to put on your non existent bs fit.

The post is a good idea though. I'll go do that.
Korwin Abre-Kai
lichfield exploration and salvage
#748 - 2014-11-25 21:25:31 UTC
LOL @ all the tears and gloating.

while the change is needed I seriously doubt either CCP nor the 'I hate multi boxing crowd" are going to get what they want out of it. the problem is that a certain part of the player base could not give a rats a** about the difference between a botter an ISboxer or a simple multi boxer. (or for that matter any one who happens to mine to make ISK) so while this change will restrict a large scale multi boxers ability to strip a belt some what it will in no way prevent it. envious players will still get their panties in bunch over the fact that others who have put in more time and effort than they have are getting more out of the game than they are. as a result due to a widening of the prohibition GMs will be getting MORE petitions not less increasing their workload even further.

that said as to the over all health of the game. this change will improve things quite a bit. commodity prices will rise some what and that cost will cascade through the grater economy. PLEX prices will at least stabilize if not drop and the total amount of inflation will fall.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#749 - 2014-11-25 21:25:36 UTC
Stygian Soul wrote:
Breaking down what a miner actually does that does and does not require broadcasting

1: undock (broadcast)
2: Squad warp to belt/bookmark (not a broadcast)
3: Launch drones (broadcast)
4: assist drones to overwatch (broadcast)
5: regroup command (not a broadcast)
6: cycle through each ship to put a laser on a different rock (not a broadcast)
7: jetcan ore or drag to an existing can (broadcast)
8: Squad warp out to POS when done (not a broadcast)
9: Dock when needed (broadcast)

So for mining the only difference will be:
I'll have to dock and undock each ship manually
Launch and assist drones on each ship manually
jetcan the ore from each ship manually

This isn't really that much more difficult to do, and if it means I make more on my harvest and pay less for my plexes because of all the people that quit, then so be it, can't say I'm pleased though. I just don't see how any of this should be a bannable offense.

Now for PvP
Gate camp:

1: squad warp to gate (not a broadcast)
2: launch drones (broadcast)
3: Assist drones (broadcast)
4: Manually go through and fix all the drones that didn't propery launch or assist (not a broadcast)
5: Activate various perma-running modules (broadcast)
6: Manually go through and fix all the modules that didn't properly activate (not a broadcast)

I can still do this manually, it just adds set up time. Bannable offense? meh.

Rapid deployment, giving chase through gates, and maneuvering were already difficult and prone to problems even with broadcasting, now it is more or less out of the question.

non-drone based pvp is also more or less out of the question, except perhaps capitals where you can have more breathing room between clicks (except for jumping in and out could get tricky, perhaps jump them in one at a time and get it set up)

So bombers nerfed out of existence, these were the focus of most of the calls for the nerfbat, so success there.

Suicide catalysts nerfed out of existence, lesser extent than the bombers, but no love lost there.

Multibox miners: Inconvenienced with a very heavy handed ban threat for attempting to save a little time and a lot of clicks.
Take that you exploiting evil multiboxer, if this doesn't work we will try...THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!

-Soul

I and many of my corp-mates multi-box mine, rat, and/or pvp.
When a roam comes through and sees mackinaws and skiffs, their faces turn to delight as they warp in.
There is nothing more satisfying than wiping that smug off their faces with a drone swarm of death.





Hmmm, bombers are actually in a very strong position right now... with or without ISBoxer broadcasting. This restriction has allowed them to reconsider bombers de-cloaking each other... which was a key point in their viability.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises
#750 - 2014-11-25 21:25:48 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Wow. I'm glad to see an update on this, I wonder how many subbed account CCP is going to lose because of this choice though.

Either way this will make certain activities more profitable in game for industrial folks.

Also taken from Reddit. Plex prices already on the down tick?

http://i.imgur.com/sSlIhZp.jpg


I think Roughy 20 thousand or so.

“Out of clutter, find simplicity. From discord, find harmony. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” --  Albert  Einstein  "War is a mere continuation of politics by other means,"

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#751 - 2014-11-25 21:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Nolak Ataru wrote:
I do have to ask, however, what your definition of "impact in eve" is. A miner multiboxing 40+ accounts can have a major impact in the industry of an alliance, be it big or small, by undercutting regular single-toon miners. A VG runner with 10 clients (such as myself) can sink a market by hoarding LP and then dumping it when he has around 10m LP on each toon (about 11b raw isk if he sells in on the CONCORD LP channel, or skywards of 3k ISK/LP if he is a manufacturer).


Well, here is the list of examples of actions with "no impact in EVE:"

CCP Falcon wrote:
Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience:

• EVE Online client settings
• Window positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating system’s desktop environment)
• The login process


So basically, things that have absolutely no discernable effect in game: whether I have high or low quality characters; show or hide drone models; run in windowed mode or full screen; have purple or black or blue as my background color; have a keypress to fire up the Launcher and type in an account name and (if foolish) password; where the client window is relative to my OS desktop.

Barring complete idiocy ("whoops, I used a bugged macro and set my interface to white text on white in the middle of a fleet fight"), nobody in EVE but me can discern if or how I set or reset any of those things, which is therefore the definition of "no impact in EVE."

Anything that sends one command to multiple clients at once is forbidden as of 2015.

I don't see much that isn't clear, unless you're setting out to muddy the waters. As long as your input devices control exactly one client at a time, whether or not you're using ISBoxer, you have nothing to worry about.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Johnathan Roark
Quantum Industries
#752 - 2014-11-25 21:26:18 UTC
Xython wrote:
Taram Caldar wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Mierin Arthie wrote:
How does this policy update regard the usage of KVM switches to control multiple computers from one mouse/keyboard?

for those that dont know what a kvm switch is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM_switch


That doesn't broadcast, it just changes where input goes - it should be fine.


Wrong
it broadcasts a single command to multiple systems

Still applies.

Seriously people.... reading comprehension


Not even close to accurate. You can simulate a KVM by unplugging your keyboard and plugging it into a second computer.

KVMs should be just fine, if you want to set up a few dozen PCs to play EVE Online with. (Don't do this.)



Some KVM have a broadcast mode. Commonly used for imaging 30 computers at once.

EVEVERIFY - A recruiting API Verification and Audit Tool

Also try out Yapeal for your php api needs

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#753 - 2014-11-25 21:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Aequitae wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:



ISBoxer isn't banned.


Quote:
Essentially it is. There's no point paying 50 dollar per year for only the permission to rearrange my screens.

According to most in this thread, that is really the only sensible way to use it for most EVE related activities. Smile
Apparently broadcasting commands is very inefficient. Who knew? Big smileBig smileBig smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Systimus
EVE Tech Services
#754 - 2014-11-25 21:27:14 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
Systimus wrote:

You aren't making much sense my friend.

Multiple accounts are still fine.

Using ISBoxer to control them all with simultaneously is not fine.

Are you seriously asking us to believe that if the program you use to "auto pilot or dock" your 4 accounts with is taken away things will become to complicated for you and you'll need to cancel accounts? REALLY? Big smile


The opening post stated the following;

'Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation.

This includes, but isn’t limited to:

• Activation and control of ships and modules
• Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
• Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
• Interaction with other characters'

This rules out more or less any use of ISBOXER to activate an autopilot button, or to dock my 4 accounts simultaneously. As I have stated previously, I don't pvp and have 4 accounts all of which I pay real money for each month. I don't consider myself to have an unfair advantage as I am paying for all 4 accounts. If anyone else wants to pay for more than 4 accounts they would have an advantage over me. good luck to them. Maybe get rid of plex's and stop macro miners self funding their players if that what the problem is.

I don't agree with macro mining and look dimly on those that do. I don't and have never plex'd any of my accounts - I pay real money each month for all 4 accounts. One account I have had for nearly 10 years. A second account, 9.5 years. I enjoy mining as I find it relaxing but mining with one account is boring but I find it much more enjoyable with 4. I don't make huge use of multi-broadcasting but I might use it to dock or maybe activate the autopilot which I consider to be trivial but would carry the same penalty as someone caught multi-broadcasting to 80 accounts. I find ISBOXER convenient to use but I may find myself at the wrong end of CCP action should I accidently use a function I shouldn't. And yes, if I find myself subject to a 30 day ban that I felt unjust, I will be looking elsewhere for an online game to play.


Quote:
You are overreacting.

In a nutshell for isboxers this does two things that i can think of:

1. It bans the use of the broadcast all feature.
2. It bans the use of clickbars that send commands to multiple characters.

Precisely, it's pretty simple.
I have a hard time believing that he can't get it through his head not to use broadcast all for ANYTHING.... or to take seriously his claim he would quit if he can't broadcast auto pilot or dock.


That is what I wasn't getting. Not to use broadcast for anything. Why could ccp not explain it as simply as that. I understand now. I can live without using broadcast at all. Thank you kraken11 for explaining that key point I'd missed.
Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#755 - 2014-11-25 21:27:30 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Please Turn wrote:


Well, I didn't miss it at all. I just feel(felt) it wasn't relevant in this case(percent wise of total revenue).

I doubt the fluctuation in the average number of purchased PLEX (you buying more PLEX when the price is lower, buying less when the price is higher is kind of balanced by more people having an incentive to buy PLEX when the price is high or not having one when the price is low) is comparable with the fluctuation in the average number of directly paid subscriptions(which has a cascade effect - would people prefer to play a dead game(no growth in the number of undocked players willing to interact with the others undocked players) or one that feels alive and vibrant).

And just to be on the safe side, since I somehow feel that you might have misread my post. Short term, there will be a hit, long term, in my view at least, this is wonderful news.


PLEX prices will drop as demand from the people who currently don't care how high the price is will lessen in the short term.

Once PLEX prices drop, people that DO care how high the price became will begin reactivating accounts. This number will obviously be far larger than the number of multi box accounts lost.

The more PLEX that change hands (usually a symptom of healthy moderate prices) the more actual cash CCP makes.


Ok dude, whatever. I'll stop now trying to argue over silly things on the internet(I'm not even sure we're arguing since you seem to agree with what I wrote, just that you're putting some effort into making it look that you don't).

Roll

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!

Apo Lamperouge
#756 - 2014-11-25 21:27:42 UTC
Stygian Soul wrote:
Angry Ganker wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of illegal multibox miners suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I am confident something awesome has happened.


actually -

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of illegal multibox loyalalon gankers suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced and the universe shuddered as it appears CODE just lost.


Doesn't it actually mean that CODE won? Mission Accomplished and all that?


Maybe, and now they can all ragequit eve and do something else.

GG

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#757 - 2014-11-25 21:28:03 UTC
Johnathan Roark wrote:
Some KVM have a broadcast mode. Commonly used for imaging 30 computers at once.


Then don't use that mode, and you'll be fine.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#758 - 2014-11-25 21:29:16 UTC
Aequitae wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

ISBoxer isn't banned.


Essentially it is. There's no point paying 50 dollar per year for only the permission to rearrange my screens.


Essentially it isn't. It's up to the consumer if the functionality that is allowd is worth the price. That in no way implies that IS Boxer is allowed or not.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#759 - 2014-11-25 21:31:12 UTC
Quote:
That is what I wasn't getting. Not to use broadcast for anything. Why could ccp not explain it as simply as that. I understand now. I can live without using broadcast at all. Thank you kraken11 for explaining that key point I'd missed.


With all this trolling going on, and with so many people pretending that "their legitimate use is now banned" to seek attention, it's getting hard to sort out those who misunderstood something basic to the topic from those that understand but are trying to mislead others.

Apologies.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#760 - 2014-11-25 21:32:03 UTC
OK ccp to who I address the bottle of wine as thanks for this marvelous decision?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"