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Crucible Hyrbid Changes: Pilots' Opinions

Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2011-12-15 18:14:08 UTC
Well, Crucible has been out for a bit now, and I imagine all the people anxious to try the hybrid changes have tried them.

I am neutral on the subject, but what is the overall opinion?
Did CCP get it right, or go too far, or not far enough?

Guessing at the lack of threads about it, I assume CCP got it right and few are complaining of the changes being under or over powered.

Or is there some feedback thread I can't find that people are screaming in?
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#2 - 2011-12-15 18:22:55 UTC
Railguns still don't have a "special sauce" that makes them particularly interesting to use. They're bland. Caldari ranged boats (except the Naga) are all poor on the field, particularly the Eagle and Ferox.

Blasters still have troubles with getting into range and dealing enough damage, mostly due to the armor rig and agility problems, I think. Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite. Even EMP is better in a lot of cases.

It's an improvement, but it still isn't there.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#3 - 2011-12-15 18:25:53 UTC
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite.

Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.

Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#4 - 2011-12-15 18:27:33 UTC
rails need a *hint* more damage.

blasters could use slightly more range,


The main problem is in the ships right now.

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#5 - 2011-12-15 18:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite.

Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting.


Confirming your confirmation. I love my Zealot.
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2011-12-15 18:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite.

Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting.

They are not great but some of them manage.

The Omen is Ok for it as well as the Nano Harbinger. Slicers Kite very well as do Shield Curses and to some degree the Sader.

But if I were to guess Sakoda meant Scorch as a statement of it's fleet uses and then mentioned Barrage specifically in it's connection to kiting.

TBH Scorch is Amarr. Without Scorch there ships would drop off the map like nothing else. Relegated to slower, weaker, cap heavier versions of Gallente ships with Beams living in the shadow of Artillery. It is literally there 1 trick pony =/
Sader Rykane
Midnight Sentinels
#7 - 2011-12-15 18:32:50 UTC
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Blasters also don't do enough extra damage to be viable next to say, using Scorch or Barrage to kite.

Confirming Amarr ships are great for kiting.


Confirming your confirmation. I love my Zealot.



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Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#8 - 2011-12-15 18:35:36 UTC
Yeah I realize that Amarr ships are slower than shield-tanked kiters. But some manage, like Alara said. The added flexibility in the T2 ammo is what I was getting at. None of the T2 hybrid ammo is a one trick pony like Barrage or Scorch.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-15 18:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Fix My Lasers
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Well, Crucible has been out for a bit now, and I imagine all the people anxious to try the hybrid changes have tried them.

I am neutral on the subject, but what is the overall opinion?
Did CCP get it right, or go too far, or not far enough?

Guessing at the lack of threads about it, I assume CCP got it right and few are complaining of the changes being under or over powered.

Or is there some feedback thread I can't find that people are screaming in?


After the patch I've found a lot more interesting fits for my gallente ships.
Reduced PG needs on Hybrids allow way better customisation and versatility.

As for the weapons themselves, rails were not bad even before the patch and now they are just better.
Blasers on the other hand depend on ship you choose. I didn't have much time to test all of it, but Blaster Mega that I flew for like 3 hrs was very powerful.
Each time you get on the Blaster range your target pops up very and very fast.

After all of that I even considered to use Hybrids on a Myrm.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#10 - 2011-12-15 19:21:13 UTC
I personally find the railguns are lacking on the damage dept, minmatar keep doing more damage with the 1400mm arty and faction ammo at longer range, than railguns with T2 ammo at short range. this can be noticed specially if you place a rokh vs a maelstrom.

the rokh top damage without drones is about 600 and FIXED to kinetic only and some leftover thermal not worth mentioning.

while the maelstrom gets to 700 dps and can do EMP, EXP, THERMAL, half kinetic at DOUBLE range, and a mix of damages, and in the long range ammo, the mael will hit you at 200km just from falloff alone, while spike railgun will do some ridiculous low damage.

Blasters, they need more much more DPS if they are intended to be face melters.


if minmatar got damage types, railguns and Lazors should get the specialized HIGH damage.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#11 - 2011-12-15 19:37:47 UTC
There is still little reason in using blasters over other weaponry. The changes to them did not address the problems they have.

It was rather like sticking a band aid over a festering wound.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#12 - 2011-12-15 19:37:58 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
I personally find the railguns are lacking on the damage dept, minmatar keep doing more damage with the 1400mm arty and faction ammo at longer range, than railguns with T2 ammo at short range. this can be noticed specially if you place a rokh vs a maelstrom.

the rokh top damage without drones is about 600 and FIXED to kinetic only and some leftover thermal not worth mentioning.

while the maelstrom gets to 700 dps and can do EMP, EXP, THERMAL, half kinetic at DOUBLE range, and a mix of damages, and in the long range ammo, the mael will hit you at 200km just from falloff alone, while spike railgun will do some ridiculous low damage.

Blasters, they need more much more DPS if they are intended to be face melters.


if minmatar got damage types, railguns and Lazors should get the specialized HIGH damage.


Ive found that railguns do comperable dps to artilery, but its way the damage is applied leaves railguns severly lacking for PvP. The Artilery, as everyone knows, has a HUGE volley damage, but a very slow rate of fire to compensate for DPS. Railguns get their dps from a very high rate of fire and a low amount of volley damage. This is fine, but the rate of fire is not high enough to make railgun volley damage viable in PvP due to logistic ships being able to lock a traget and repair it within 5 seconds.

Simple fix though...increase the rate of fire ofr rail guns and lower their volley damage ot keep their DPS still in line with other turret platforms. Possibally even a 3 volley burst, with 1 second inbetween every shot followed by a 3 or 4 second wait until your next 3 volley burst. That might make railguns more viable in PvP.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#13 - 2011-12-15 19:51:24 UTC
remove the tracking pen from t2 blaster ammo and add a bit more dps. they dont do enough damage upclose to over come the getting into range issue.

fitting is much easier now though

OMG when can i get a pic here

Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#14 - 2011-12-15 20:21:17 UTC
Pro's:
Fitting is easier
Suicide ganking is easier (coupled with Destroyer buff... omg.)
Reload Time is as should be.

Cons:
Main drawback of Hybrid failure not addressed: Blaster boats (in the current form of REAL close range) are not the fastest ships in the game.

To Correct (several options):
Make Gallente faster than Minmatar, but give Minmatar the agility edge.

Rework Autocannons to be what blasters are and blasters what autocannons are.

Rework Autocannons to have very far range with almost no falloff with a buff to gallente optimal and significant falloff.
As an example (all Level 5's): Heavy Neutrons with optimal of 6km, falloff of approx 8km, 425 Autocannons with optimal of 11km and 0.5km falloff. This way, the minmatar would have to maintain a specific range, within overclocked web/scram range if they veer too close, but both can hit each other.

Needs to be done regardless:
Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility.
Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Michus Danether
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-12-15 20:31:43 UTC
I think we need to give it far more time for people to determine the efficacy of the new hybrids. We need to let people experiment with fittings, tactics, fleet and gang load-outs and otherwise give hybrids a chance.

Personally I have fit some very impressive and powerful rail fits and some fail fits as well, it seems that while small and large hybrid weapons have found their sweet spot, the medium hybrids didn't get as much love.

We need to give it a few months to see what develops. I think we can all agree however that hybrids are better now than they were before, we just need to determine if they are either not better enough or too much better.
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#16 - 2011-12-15 20:52:43 UTC
I agree, give it a little more time to sink in. Personally haven't been much of a Hybrid user. Mostly missiles and autocannons. But I have noticed a big difference in the Blasters. If you're in an active tank Battleship and those suckas get too close, make no mistake, your **** will melt.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman

Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#17 - 2011-12-15 20:54:40 UTC
.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman

Alara IonStorm
#18 - 2011-12-15 21:05:33 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:

Needs to be done regardless:
Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility.
Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.

So make armor ships even easier to catch on gates by changing speed to agility and screwing shield ships on speed instead of armor. Neither sounds, whats the word...

Fun.

I say just remove Rig Penalties all together.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-12-15 21:09:07 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
I personally find the railguns are lacking on the damage dept, minmatar keep doing more damage with the 1400mm arty and faction ammo at longer range, than railguns with T2 ammo at short range. this can be noticed specially if you place a rokh vs a maelstrom.

the rokh top damage without drones is about 600 and FIXED to kinetic only and some leftover thermal not worth mentioning.

while the maelstrom gets to 700 dps and can do EMP, EXP, THERMAL, half kinetic at DOUBLE range, and a mix of damages, and in the long range ammo, the mael will hit you at 200km just from falloff alone, while spike railgun will do some ridiculous low damage.

Blasters, they need more much more DPS if they are intended to be face melters.


if minmatar got damage types, railguns and Lazors should get the specialized HIGH damage.


Get back to fixing it, CCP.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-12-15 21:14:32 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:

Needs to be done regardless:
Armor rigs and plates should only affect agility.
Astronautic rigs should affect shield HP negatively.

So make armor ships even easier to catch on gates by changing speed to agility and screwing shield ships on speed instead of armor. Neither sounds, whats the word...

Fun.

I say just remove Rig Penalties all together.


allow gallente ships to have high MWD velocity, hi straight line charge, disallow gallente maneuvering and orbiting - basically gallente are plated knights with spears and swords. Hard on charge, slow to turn around.

Minmatar are fast an low tank.

Ammar are cap deficient, but otherwise powerful in all aspects. Somewhat slow.

Caldari are falling out. Supposedly snipers, lightest armored ships, not designed for close combat. Caldari role is negligible, their DPS is absurd low. And weak long range fleet will always be charged by Gallente knights.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

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