Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I can't even find the OP's killboard. The OP's kills don't show up on EVE-kill, and the OP doesn't show up at all on Battleclinic.

See now you are just being ridiculous. Freighter ganking isn't profitable? I mean some groups may choose to operate at a loss so they can get in more ganks, but the entire point of suicide ganking freighters is because it can be profitable. Do you read anything these guys post? Because I do. If they didn't care about doing it in a profitable way they wouldn't have scouts with cargo and ship scanners. They wouldn't try to min/max the cost of the attack. They wouldn't watch hubs to see which targets may be headed their way. No, they'd just sit in one place and throw an equal number of Talos's (maxing the kill chance) at as many freighters as they could afford that day.

As far as who is paying in to support miner ganking, I'm sure you're right, the ship builders may be part of that. I'm not sure why that matters. That just makes them douchebags by association.



You may want to reread the description of the game from their website.

WHAT IS EVE ONLINE?
EVE Online is a massively multiplayer online game set 23,000 years in the future. As an elite spaceship pilot, you will explore, build, and dominate across a universe of over 7,000 star systems. Sandbox gameplay and advanced skill-based progression provide you with a truly unique experience as you rise to power among the stars.

The possibilities are endless in EVE Online:
Takes sides in factional warfare. Join an alliance and wage epic battles for sovereignty over star systems. Discover wormholes leading to unknown regions of space. Uncover pirate outposts and lucrative resources hidden in the far reaches of the cosmos.

High sec exists for a purpose, and the ability to kill people there exists in limited form. War decs are an option, suicide ganking is an option, albeit less of one than it used to be. EVE is a great game for PvP but that doesn't mean it is only a PvP game or that PvP is mandatory everywhere.

High sec is where people can play casually, and worry less about being afk. Yes, I said worry less, not zero worry. Honestly if they cut the cost of war dec's in half and reduced CONCORD response time in a 0.5 I think high sec would still be a place where PvP happens non-consensually often enough. As you pointed out there are other forms of PvP besides ships fighting and all of it goes on in high sec, maybe more so than anywhere else. But some people just need to f*ck up somebody else's day in a mostly safe area to feel good about themselves. The game allows it, and it should to some degree, but that doesn't make that person any less of a douchebag for enjoying it.



The ship is balanced just fine against the others. There are legitimate reasons to use all of them. The Skiff is being used more where there is more risk. If you want to see less of them used, don't do things that cause them to perceive more risk in that area.

TLDR; You can't just blow everybody up and expect them not to react to it.

Not sure If I have corrected you specifically on this one already or not.

The Mackinaw has the largest ore hold. Yes I think that is correct.
The Hulk has the highest mining yield. Yes that is correct also.

The Skiff has the largest tanking ability. Yes. BUT it also has a fairly decent ore hold, mines as much as the Mackinaw, is resistant to 'bumping', and has a 50% bonus to drone damage. In short it has all the positives but no negative aspects. Fozzie should have seen this when the last changes were made so either he made an error or he chose to break the role based ship rule for the Skiff.

Regarding use of Skiffs they are used a lot in fleets in ice anomalies and this is spreading slowly into asteroid belts over time. On the other hand use of the Mackinaw and especially the Hulk is getting rarer all the time.

I get the idea that high sec should allow for casual or afk play from the fact that the inherent security forces, CONCORD, are designed to provide such an environment. I mean why else do they kill you when you perform a criminal act? Maybe they programmed them wrong? Or maybe it's because criminal acts in high sec are supposed to be limited, that would make sense. And since criminal acts are limited the space should be mostly safe. But it's not, for the pilots of a few specific types of ships, and we seem to disagree on how safe it should be, at least for those pilots. I feel that high sec should allow for costly targeted killings which would generally serve some purpose like revenge or whatever. You seem to feel that if you want to kill anybody in high sec that you should be able to, and maybe even make a profit from it. If that isn't what you feel then please clarify.

As far as douchebaggery goes, it's a pretty simple measure. If you only enjoy killing people who didn't knowingly take a risk, you might be a douchebag. If you enjoy killing people who did knowingly take a risk and/or are attacking you then your honor is intact. Since you think high sec is some place where things should still be really risky, when it isn't, then you may appear as a douchebag to me without actually being one. This isn't specifically about you though, it's about the mentality of those who only enjoy killing the weak and helpless.

When I'm in low/null/wspace I expect people to try to kill me, and I applaud them when they do, because I'm pretty careful and it's not an easy thing when I'm paying attention. That is killing with honor, and it is one of the great things about EVE.



What if they responded to overuse of the Skiff by nerfing suicide ganking? Would that be ok? I mean if they feel the ships are pretty well balanced overall and it is an external influence that is causing the overuse, wouldn't they just fix that?

I think you are a little mistaken here. The whole point of the complex security status/crimewatch/facpo system is to allow for the career of "highsec criminal". If the game designers didn't want that, they can just lock out -10s from highsec, turn off offensive modules, or any other number of changes that would provide actual safety in highsec. But they didn't because highsec criminality has been explicitly allowed in the game by how it was designed and programmed.

This systems provides for some risk and forces highsec players to at least pay some small attention to the risk side of the
equation and fit some tank. Otherwise, every fit would be max yield/cargo, and there wouldn't be much actual gameplay decisions left to be made by a player.

It also serves as a bit of a brake to prevent groups of players with massive resources from permanently shutting down highsec systems, and provides some protection to solo and small group players from the more massive player organizations in the game.

There is of course much room for playing with balance to tune the level of protection, but ultimately, if there is risk it is the casual and AFK players are going to be the first to explode since they cannot or do not want to protect themselves.


Yes. Any ship that fits or carries more cargo than it can protect should explode at the hands of other players. Protection can come from pure tank, player attentiveness, speed, ability to cloak, or a number of other mechanisms, but there are numerous ways to protect yourself from making yourself a profitable gank target although some of them take effort. If highsec players choose not to protect themselves because they are lazy, greedy, or clueless another player should call them on it and make them explode (see CCP Falcon's comment 1 and 2, or all of them in context).

This is the game.


Eve is not a balanced, area-style combat simulator. It is an open-world competitive sandbox where all of us players compete on multiple levels simultaneously. You can "be the villain" and obey no code of honour at all, or you can be a hero and follow the strictest e-Bushido code you like. Honour isn't coded into the game which is in part what makes Eve such an interesting and distinct game. But it is still just a video game where it is only pixels that get exploded.

All player know, or should know that they are taking a risk when they undock. There are risks, and there are consequences in Eve. There is also emergent gameplay. All of these things can result in your ship exploding. If some players don't get this, then we need to educate them either with a better NPE, or by some gentle exploding of them when they are young and still aren't flying anything expensive.

These risks can be managed, and with some minor effort there is no reason you cannot operate as you like unmolested in highsec. Isn't the game more rewarding if you know you are dodging people that are actually trying to get you?


Why would the nerf a fundamental and explicitly-included part of the game, rather than just tweak the stats of the Exhumers like they did six months ago when the increased this imbalance?

Battleclinic is the most poorly designed killboard available plus once I got a Trojan attack from using it so I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole.

EVE-Kill is a good killboard. It is linked to Z-board which is the best one available currently. If you type my name or corporation correctly you will find me on Z-board.

To be honest though I use diplomacy & non-lethal methods first to achieve my contractors aims in removing large ISBoxer and bot mining fleets from one system. Despite what some people may tell you there is not always a direct profit motive in suicide ganking.

To Reaver Glitterstim. The OP is about reducing the mining yield to return the Skiff to CCPs role based ship system. Please try and stick to the proposal subject.

Link that please.

--Gadget

I can't find the link but it's around here somewhere, maybe the dev blogs. ISBoxer is not banned itself, you can still use functions like screen management and login. CCP will be tracking account activity for multiple simultaneous actions to see if multiple accounts are using it to do the same thing at once.