These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

New mod: Wormhole scanner

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#21 - 2011-12-15 15:28:46 UTC
Wormerling wrote:

Jumps, NPC and ship kills as well? The target system of the wormhole?

Wormholes are supposed to be a bit of a mystery, so that might be a bit over doing it. Then again, you get that info on third-party sites/software anyways.

Wormerling wrote:

Support this, so that without scanner mass and time limits of the wormhole that you can see remain as they are. With the scanner (and level 1 skill) you get info about the class of the target system and about it's maximum time and mass limits. The higher your wormscan skills the better results you get for the current state of the remaining mass and time. However it shouldn't be 100% accurate even at skill level 5.


With this I agree completely.
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#22 - 2011-12-15 16:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Pobunjenik
Sorry for the double post, I have thought about the mod a bit more and I want to share it with the community (also to prevent the death of this idea).

In my opinion, probing wormholes should work much like probing moons. It's only logical if you have to send a probe through to collect the information. There could be a set of skills related to the mod.

1. SKILLS
Skill suggestion:
Wormhole scanning - Allows the use of wormhole scanners and wormhole probes. Each level shortens scanning time by # seconds. (At level 1, scanning time could be 20 seconds, and at level 5 - 10 seconds.).

Wormhole analysis - Gives more detailed scans.
Level 1 - gives max time and mass, max jump mass, links target system
Level 2 - estimates time left
Level 3 - estimates mass left
Level 4 - estimates possible exploration sites
Level 5 - estimates player activity

Advanced wormhole analysis - Increases level of detail in scans by 20% (so that level 5 gives next to perfect results).

Support skills that are already built in (such as science) can be associated with these skills
As for training multipliers, I recommend the following:
Wormhole scanning - x1
Wormhole analysis - x1
Advanced wormhole analysis - x2 (perhaps even 3, but then the skill would have to seriously boost the level of detail)

2. THE MOD
An active, medium slot mod. The variants all have different parameters (such as range, ROF) respective to their meta level.
The charges meta levels can differ, but not necessarily. It makes sense that the charges are retrievable as they return back to the owner to deliver the data. However, they should have a considerable volume to balance things out.

People who make money with blueprints should welcome this idea as much as explorers should!

_____________________________________

I hope this will get one of the devs interested enough to make a comment.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#23 - 2011-12-15 19:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ingvar Angst
Pobunjenik wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Would many people actually bother fitting a wormhole scanner though? I'd probably still use the 3rd party app.


It would be of great help to WH raiders as well as permanent dwellers.
A quick access to information is always good. Why bother with sites?


Actually my first thoughts were how absolutely useless this would be. The in game browser is always up, when I go through a hole static mapper (one of the sites I use) automatically updates, faster than even a scanner would, and I have all the info at my fingertips without any effort at all.

This would add absolutely nothing to the game. It would never get used... why waste a slot to get information more slowly than I already do?

By the way, you can look at a wormhole and get an estimate on time and mass remaining.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
lskman
Malicious Laboratories
#24 - 2011-12-15 19:50:25 UTC
Totally agree with the mod and skill idea!
That would make wormholes a big deal more intresting.

Bumpage!
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#25 - 2011-12-15 19:55:21 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Pobunjenik wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Would many people actually bother fitting a wormhole scanner though? I'd probably still use the 3rd party app.


It would be of great help to WH raiders as well as permanent dwellers.
A quick access to information is always good. Why bother with sites?


Actually my first thoughts were how absolutely useless this would be. The in game browser is always up, when I go through a hole static mapper (one of the sites I use) automatically updates, faster than even a scanner would, and I have all the info at my fingertips without any effort at all.

This would add absolutely nothing to the game. It would never get used... why waste a slot to get information more slowly than I already do?

By the way, you can look at a wormhole and get an estimate on time and mass remaining.


I'd rather have my eyes poked then use the in-game browser. I'm sure many will agree.

PS
Thank you SO MUCH for the revolutionizing tip of hitting show info on a wormhole.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#26 - 2011-12-15 20:06:03 UTC
Pobunjenik wrote:

I'd rather have my eyes poked then use the in-game browser. I'm sure many will agree.

PS
Thank you SO MUCH for the revolutionizing tip of hitting show info on a wormhole.


My pleasure. Actually, you don't even need to do that... you can look at and listen to the hole and get an estimate of what's remaining.

So... let me get this right... instead of having your browser on, for example, staticmapper.com and tucked in a corner of your overview, and instead of having this browser automatically update with the hole information the moment you jump into it, you want to jump into the hole then have to scan for the exact same information?

You can't get the information from outside the hole, of course... you don't know what system it connects to until you (or someone you know) actually goes in there... so a scanner on the other side is pretty worthless. If you're scanning the hole itself for the information the hole is already giving you...

What's the actual value of this again? I'm not seeing any to be honest. I've been in holes closing in on a year now and this really does nothing for me.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#27 - 2011-12-15 20:16:36 UTC
With the mod, CCP could give you more detailed infos then you get from sites. Also, the idea is that you don't have to enter the hole, you simply send a probe through and receive the data once it returns.

Even thou i went into great detail, the idea is still rough around the edges and needs a bit of CCP love applied to it.
I stand firm with this idea until I get an honest opinion from one of the Ccpians.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#28 - 2011-12-15 20:29:56 UTC
Pobunjenik wrote:
With the mod, CCP could give you more detailed infos then you get from sites. Also, the idea is that you don't have to enter the hole, you simply send a probe through and receive the data once it returns.

Even thou i went into great detail, the idea is still rough around the edges and needs a bit of CCP love applied to it.
I stand firm with this idea until I get an honest opinion from one of the Ccpians.


Send a probe through? Oh, that's bad. Real bad. You take away the risk of going into wormhole systems altogether?

No. Don't nerf mah holes bro. Wormholes are meant to be dangerous. There are required risks. If you want the data, go get it. There may or may not be a "welcoming party" on the other side of the hole waiting for you... that's for you to find out when you jump.

There's also a trend to reduce the free intel available associated with wormholes by the way... for example they recently removed jump data from the API and are considering removing at least NPC kill data. These probes would go in the opposite direction that CCP is going by giving free, no risk intel. As such, I wouldn't expect anything resembling these to happen.

Still... can't figure out why I'd want to pay for probes when I can get the intel for free and without using up a slot...

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
DHuncan
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#29 - 2011-12-16 01:49:43 UTC
Curiously I was thinking the other day something similar to though into a stargate... if probe is not back in three minutes... it got scram... hehe TII could also have a 500 Teratones charge.

What did you say about CODE?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#30 - 2011-12-16 02:53:57 UTC
No.

More information for wormhole space is not a good thing.
Wormerling
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-12-16 08:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Wormerling
Pobunjenik wrote:
Wormerling wrote:

Jumps, NPC and ship kills as well? The target system of the wormhole?

Wormholes are supposed to be a bit of a mystery, so that might be a bit over doing it. Then again, you get that info on third-party sites/software anyways.

Agreed. It simply was not clear enough from your head post what info you want to include into the scan report.

I don't support the idea of gathering data about the wormspace system where wormhole leads. As mentioned, there should be a risk of going through and finding that on your own. That way, possible exploration sites and player activity - no. However I support the idea of telling explorer the system name on the other side.

Ingvar Angst, this scanner is supposed to give more percise information about the remaining mass and time limits than that you can currently get by looking infomration on wormhole or looking the wormhole size itself. As a bonus it provides information about wormhole total mass and time limits, though you can easily get this info on web.

By the way, an analyzer module looks like a nice candidate. Giving it an ability to scan wormholes for data will make it more useful to have on an exploration ship.

No additional skills (apart from that which require you to fit analyzer) required to use analyzer on wormhole and get the following data: max time and mass, max jump mass, target system name. Analyzer provides data about remaining mass and time limits in numbers (kg, seconds, minuts and hours rather than percents). Wormhole analysis (x3) skill increases the presision of the iformation about remaining mass and time. Without this skill using analyzer on wormhole gives the same data as if you looked info on wormhole.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#32 - 2011-12-16 11:30:56 UTC
Wormerling wrote:
Pobunjenik wrote:
Wormerling wrote:

Jumps, NPC and ship kills as well? The target system of the wormhole?

Wormholes are supposed to be a bit of a mystery, so that might be a bit over doing it. Then again, you get that info on third-party sites/software anyways.

Agreed. It simply was not clear enough from your head post what info you want to include into the scan report.

I don't support the idea of gathering data about the wormspace system where wormhole leads. As mentioned, there should be a risk of going through and finding that on your own. That way, possible exploration sites and player activity - no. However I support the idea of telling explorer the system name on the other side.

Ingvar Angst, this scanner is supposed to give more percise information about the remaining mass and time limits than that you can currently get by looking infomration on wormhole or looking the wormhole size itself. As a bonus it provides information about wormhole total mass and time limits, though you can easily get this info on web.

By the way, an analyzer module looks like a nice candidate. Giving it an ability to scan wormholes for data will make it more useful to have on an exploration ship.

No additional skills (apart from that which require you to fit analyzer) required to use analyzer on wormhole and get the following data: max time and mass, max jump mass, target system name. Analyzer provides data about remaining mass and time limits in numbers (kg, seconds, minuts and hours rather than percents). Wormhole analysis (x3) skill increases the presision of the iformation about remaining mass and time. Without this skill using analyzer on wormhole gives the same data as if you looked info on wormhole.


Remaining mass and time is supposed to be an inexact science however. There's a reason that holes don't give you complete, down to the kilogram and second information. There's a reason there's variability built into a hole. A two billion mass hole is anywhere between 1.8B and 2.2B... that's part of the inherant risk regarding wormholes. There's the risk, for example, that when closing a hole you'll wind up trapped on the other side, so you need to take proper precautions and plan properly for that.

This would make it too easy. We don't need more easy. More interesting, more fun, sure... bring it on, and the expected risks associated with that. More easy? No thanks... wormholes aren't for those that want more easy. They don't need to be nerfed in any way, shape or form.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Horus V
The Destined
#33 - 2011-12-16 12:09:57 UTC
+1

V
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#34 - 2011-12-16 12:53:38 UTC
Wormerling wrote:

No additional skills (apart from that which require you to fit analyzer) required to use analyzer on wormhole and get the following data: max time and mass, max jump mass, target system name. Analyzer provides data about remaining mass and time limits in numbers (kg, seconds, minuts and hours rather than percents). Wormhole analysis (x3) skill increases the presision of the iformation about remaining mass and time. Without this skill using analyzer on wormhole gives the same data as if you looked info on wormhole.


Simple is best, I did go a bit overboard with the details in the first explanation.
All I want is to take what's already available, and put it in the game.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#35 - 2011-12-16 13:15:05 UTC
Pobunjenik wrote:
Wormerling wrote:

No additional skills (apart from that which require you to fit analyzer) required to use analyzer on wormhole and get the following data: max time and mass, max jump mass, target system name. Analyzer provides data about remaining mass and time limits in numbers (kg, seconds, minuts and hours rather than percents). Wormhole analysis (x3) skill increases the presision of the iformation about remaining mass and time. Without this skill using analyzer on wormhole gives the same data as if you looked info on wormhole.


Simple is best, I did go a bit overboard with the details in the first explanation.
All I want is to take what's already available, and put it in the game.


Simple is what we already have. Occam is turning over in his grave at the thoughts of this added and unnecessary layer on top of that.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#36 - 2011-12-16 13:20:15 UTC
My argument is that the data you have, should be available from within the game or not at all.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#37 - 2011-12-16 13:56:21 UTC
Pobunjenik wrote:
My argument is that the data you have, should be available from within the game or not at all.


It already is. Jump in the hole and look.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Previous page12