Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes, you undock. Once the target has been identified, once things are in motion and you are about to gank the target. And you undock in a destroyer, you and a bunch of other risk averse pansies, in destroyers. Risking so much, but of course never as much as person you are trying to gank. But really it's not risking anything, because the risk calculation happens before you ever undock. If the risk calculation says it's not worth it then you don't undock, hence no risk, hence pansy.

And let's talk about CONCORD for a second, those jerks who have the gall to try to maintain the "high security" aspect of high security space. You call it "hiding behind" but nobody here is responsible for the presence of or operational mandate of CONCORD. They are there because it's high security space. You chose to **** CONCORD off, now deal with the consequences.

Somehow you see undocking in a Destroyer with some guns on it, as a -10, as the ultimate form of risk. Somehow that is more risky than undocking in a fitted Mining Barge or Exhumer that is worth far more than your prissy little ship. Somewhere in your screwed up head you think they aren't risking anything because most of the time they don't get killed. But that's not how risk works. It's the chance that you will be killed that matters. If you are in a belt in something that can be easily alpha'd you are at high risk, especially since you are sitting there for long periods of time and can't warp out fast enough to avoid a gank in motion.

The criminal punk in the Destroyer however, they are only undocked for a brief period of time. They can warp quickly and bounce around, only needing to be at the right place at the right time as determined by a person on grid who isn't criminally flagged. Sounds really risky. Not to mention if somebody wants to screw up your day they have to get you in the 15-21 seconds that the gank is going down. You're never exposed for more time than that. Not to mention they have to get you really fast to affect the gank in any way. If it takes them 20 seconds to kill a few of you then the damage will already be done.

But please, tell me more about how you are a hardcore risk taker who is heavy affected by other players in this MMO.

I could have sworn I just heard a troll burp.

By 'normal' risk I reckon you mean you can mine in absolute safety right?

Again: they give up very little compared to the tank they get. I'm fine with the tank on the Skiff, I'm not fine it is so close in yield to the Hulk and on par with the mack.

I mean the normal risk of operating in whatever security level space the person is operating in. Ganking should be possible, but it should be a lot harder and far less profitable than it is or has ever been in this game. If you want to take somebody out under CONCORD's nose you should have to pay out the wazoo to make it happen.

It has already been established that they give up about 30% mining yield and have to make more trips to haul, in trade for a better tank. If it was safe enough to use something less tanky then they probably would. You can't just blow up whatever you want and then complain when people take care to avoid getting blown up again. They are giving up ISK/hr to mitigate you, maybe not at a rate that you think is fair, but then they probably don't think the ease with which you suicide gank ships is fair either.

Ah, the One More Nerf-argument.


Again: the issue is not the Skiff being hard to gank, it's how they compare on tank/yield. You cannot seriously agree that being effectively gank-immune is mitigated by a 30% difference in yield.

Yes there is a risk to being -10, which is mitigated by sitting in the station until it's absolutely necessary. You know, all that time while the non -10 people are doing all that homework you talk about. The only risk a suicide ganker faces is not profiting, that is it. You undock in a ship knowing you will lose it, the only way that can go wrong is if the gank fails or you are denied the loot. All in a situation which is planned and executed in such a way that the risk of either happening is minimal and is only likely in the case of a trap.

You just don't get it. The miner undocks, fit with whatever he chooses, and has to rely on the overview, local and d-scan to mitigate his risk. You undock, warp to a target, lose your ship as expected, maybe lose your empty pod, and that's it. You risked nothing but the chance at profit, and that chance has been engineered by those involved to be a good one. If the chance wasn't good, those -10's would still be sitting in station waiting for the next opportunity.

"Not profiting" is the only risk miners have too, or anyone in EVE. Again: most ganking is not done for a profit, it's done for getting kills (you know, that thing that is the most important part of EVE's gameplay?). Being able to scoop the loot and half your fittings will bring you somewhere at break even if you gank economicaly, if you throw T2 catalysts at everything, you're losing money, and quit fast too.

Again: with other ppl on grid, you will not be able to scoop your fittings and/or loot, these often fall to the hands of corpies that are on grid.

Even if you were able to do it all the time, the isk/hour rate of ganking miners would be lower than running L3 missions.

As for the pods: most of us do not fly an empty pod, you can't even fit a t2 cata without using implants. And most of us use DPS implants too. A decent gank pod will often be worth more than a few retrievers.

The miner in his Skiff is really at a much lower risk than just about anyone else in this game. It's about as safe as you can get. You're very hard to gank and you're not an attractive target to begin with. I lose more money on my trading alts by misclicking than ppl do losing Skiffs... People flying untanked/antitanked/poorly tanked mining ships are not 'risk takers' they are idiots. The ganker equivalent of ppl like that would be that I never checked my targets, let my pod linger in the belt after a gank and other stupid stuff. That's not 'taking risks', it's 'being stupid'. And that seems to be what you're so butthurt about, stupid miners fall to dilligent gankers who go out of their way to keep their losses as low as possible.

Cause killing stuff in a game that is about killing stuff makes you evil amirite?

Yes, I know how the math works thank you. And yes, it would still be quite awesome since the Skiff beats the Hulk in every other aspect. It would still have a much beefier tank and keep all it's other perks over the Hulk in terms of being better at combat, harder to scan down, having superior mobility, an ore bay almost twice as big.



Nope, I want there to be real choices. The numbers of the yield nerf could be discussed but yes, a yield nerf is needed imho to bring it in line with the other xumers.

The killing doesn't. The who and the why might. I have no respect for people who try to use holes in the game mechanics to kill the weak and uninformed in high sec simply for the lulz.



You don't seem to understand, the Skiff is great right now. In fact it's an excellent choice for dealing with the likes of you. You only want to make it worse, why would anybody support that?



Here's a novel idea. If you want people who mine where you live to fly something other than a Skiff, try giving them a reason to. But instead you feel that you should just be able to keep suicide ganking endlessly and that people who choose to mitigate the risk you present should have their yield nerfed by upwards of 60% simply because they made a smart choice?

Let me say it again: this GAME is about KILLING stuff. It is the single most important aspect of EVE. Would you call ppl that play mmo FPS sociopaths for shooting each other?

Nobody forces them to fly Exhumers, they could go for using T1 variants (which a surprising number of miners actually do) which are dirt cheap. If you choose the Procurer you're almost as safe as in a Skiff and it's the cheapest barge around even. A few hours of mining earn you your purchase back.

The spread between 'empty pod' and a 1 billion pod is rather big wouldn't you say? I'd say it is about ehm, 1 billion, but maybe I'm getting the math wrong?

Dunno what it would cost to replace my current pod exactly but anyone squishing it will consider it an ok kill I'm sure.



Stupid, uneducated, call it whatever you want but it isn't being smart, dilligent or putting effort into getting to know the game, that's for sure....

As it stands now, you can operate very casually in highsec, CONCORD does provide your security needs, it just asks of you that you manage to stay alive for a mere twenty-ish seconds.

Suiciding drakes is prolly pretty rare yeah, since they are low value targets with heaps of tank. When it comes to ganking mission runners the faction BS and marauders receive the brunt of the attention since they are high value (even without exotic hyper expensive modules fit).

In EVE you deserve to die whenever anyone manages to kill you btw. That goes for everyone, gankers, miners, missionrunners, haulers etc etc. Again: it's the most important part of the game.