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Question on Wormholes

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Katlyn Koreth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-11-23 14:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Katlyn Koreth
So I have perma-docked my mining barge and set out to explore new Eden in my little Heron, but I keep running into these wormholes...

What exactly is the game mechanic behind wormholes? If I enter one, where will I end up? And more importantly, how can I get back? Will it collapse behind me? Afraid to get stuck in some nullsec space, 40 jumps away from my home station, lol.

Also, will I find a typical data/relic site there to hack?
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-23 14:22:54 UTC
There are 3 general types of wormholes k-space to k-space, k-space to j-space (wormhole), and j-space to j-space. Where it leads to can be told just by clicking show info. Wormholes can collapse behind you but it is extremely preventable unless a group intentionally collapses it. Just bookmark the hole. As for site wormholes do have radar and mag sites but I'm not sure if they implemented the k-space ones in low end wormholes yet.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Katlyn Koreth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-11-23 14:58:51 UTC
I have clicked show info, and it says it leads to wormhole space.. is that nullsec? Will I get blasted to pieces the second I enter?
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-11-23 15:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
No, wormhole space is wormhole space. It is an entire group of systems which are not on the map and are connected by wormholes themselves. Usually wormholes are empty but sometimes they have residents who have set up a POS there. Make a bookmark of the exit hole when you enter and if it collapses and you are unable to scan down a new one, you've got a problem. On the wormhole info page, it will say it is reaching the "end of its natural lifetime" if it has <4 hours remaining, in which case you should be wary of entering. Also, there is *no local chat in WH space* meaning you will not see who is in system unless you catch them on scanner or they are stupid enough to talk in local.

Data and relic sites in the WH are often guarded by sleepers which you will not be able to take on in a frigate. However, recently CCP added null-sec level data and relic sites to wormholes so they are more worthwhile for passing explorers. These are sites with factions like "Blood Raiders" or other pirate factions in the name.

Or, you could take a trip down wormhole lane and scan down another wormhole in the system, which will lead to another system (or a system in high/low/null), etc. It can be easy to get lost, or to have a wormhole close behind you, but as long as you have probes you can find your way back to high-sec by scanning down your way to a low-class wormhole (not "deadly" or "dangerous" in the description) until you find a HS exit.

You seem to be a bit more scared of null than you should be. It's more of a wasteland than anything else, even the residents you do encounter are sometimes just carebear renters. However, I would avoid null, and maybe wormhole space, until you have a covert ops cloak. In null, you will inevitably run into warp bubbles on gates and someone will blow you up unless you have an interceptor or covert ops ship.

More info: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Wormholes
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#5 - 2014-11-23 15:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Right first of NO BODY and I mean NO BODY calls w-space as j-space. P

So with out of the way we have w-space and k-space that stand for known space and wormhole space.

Anyway so in w-space normal null sec rules apply within barring few exceptions:
- also think of a w-hole as a gate that lead to a system, a very few WH's actually take directly from k-space to k-space.
- there is no local in w-space so anyone and I mean anyone can lurk there with cov ops without you knowing it.
- no sovereignty can be claimed and thus no SOV related structures can exist there (up coming Thera is a special case)
- w-holes are classified from 1 to 6 where 1 means that there are only "easy sleepers" to kill ie, they don't neut you to death et c. while in c5-c6 nothing can be done solo and sites are farmed with capital fleets or fleets of battleships.

Obviously living in c6 is the most lucrative of the bunch but it also requires the largest group and investment.

- so w-holes are rated from c1 to c6 where the number indicates how much mass can go through it, not a ship type, new "frigate holes" are an exception and have their own rules.
- some WH's have an 'effect' that vary in stats and strength, the higher the class the bigger the effect on your ship.
- normally WH last some 24h with a rare exception of some 92h holes
- each w-hole has a unique j-number signature that never changes thus w-hole often refers to actual solar system behind the vortex and not just the vortex itself even if the vortex is often called a womhole both on forums and in game.

That was about rudimentary basics, so what you need to know when entering the w-hole.

- all WH have what is called a 'static' that always open to a certain type of space but where is always random.
so for example my 'home hole' in c6 has a 'c5 static' meaning that as soon as that hole disappears a new one leading to another c5 is formed somewhere in the solar system this is important because most if not all c1 and c2 always have a 'high sec static'.
- w-holes don't show up in d-scan they have to be probed down, hence you must always remember to bookmark the w-hole you just entered (cntr + B).
- If the WH is on a verge of collapse or end of it's life time (EOL) it will visibly and audibly sigh and wobble and also informs you in info text when it happens.
- POS can and are anchored in w-apace and are the only way to actually "live" in w-space this also makes successful w-hole groups a tightly knit bunch because nothing can be bolted down in POS hangars on individual basis meaning nothing but honesty stops me or someone else from robbing my corp mates blind.


the rest you can frind from EVE-uni wiki and i'm sure I left the most out but some things you have better to look for your self.

Edit:
And contrary to popular belief a w-hole from high sec can open up directly to c6 space. there was the day that we had 6 !!!?? Shocked k-space connections open simultaneously to our c6 w-hole and well we got kills that day, lots of (easy) kills. Pirate
Katlyn Koreth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-11-23 15:51:36 UTC
That was a great breakdown, thank you very much!

So long story short, I shouldn't enter one with just a T-1 frigate and a proto-type cloaking device?

Is the Covert Ops ship (buzzard for me), really that much more combat-capable? I understood all exploration frigates to be generally weak in combat.

Is it common to scan down a site, then return with a bigger ship? Is that even possible?

Thanks!
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#7 - 2014-11-23 15:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Nope, a buzzard is nowhere near a combat ship but it can warp while being cloaked.

Edit:
w-hole sites don't differ in mechanics from k-space sites. ie. once you have BM'ed you can return to site assuming you haven't interacted with it.
There was a mechanic where the site de-spawned is once you warped to site and left the grid (ie. it had to be done in one go) but I have a feeling that mechanic has gone with the way of the dodo when sites were last up-dated with content.
Once interacted the site disappears in 3 hours and w-hole sites always have sleepers in them.
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-11-23 16:58:05 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Right first of NO BODY and I mean NO BODY calls w-space as j-space. P


Congrats I've been playing with wormholes since they were released old habits die hard I seem to **** people off referring to grav, Ladar, radar, and mag sites.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-11-23 18:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
Katlyn Koreth wrote:
That was a great breakdown, thank you very much!

So long story short, I shouldn't enter one with just a T-1 frigate and a proto-type cloaking device?

Is the Covert Ops ship (buzzard for me), really that much more combat-capable? I understood all exploration frigates to be generally weak in combat.

Is it common to scan down a site, then return with a bigger ship? Is that even possible?

Thanks!


It's not the combat, it's the cloak, a covops ship can easily avoid gatecamps because the campers will have to decloak you with a ship or cans to attack you. Also if you cloak when you initiate warp they have a tiny, tiny frame in which to lock you whereas a Heron gives them a good few seconds.

In general, you should avoid wormhole sites with sleepers in them. The sleeper loot isn't bad but the cans are pretty terrible vs the amount of effort you invest.

Quote:
Once interacted the site disappears in 3 hours and w-hole sites always have sleepers in them.


As of Oceanus, I think, there are now enemy-free null-class sites in wormholes in addition to sleeper sites.
Morgan Strigidae
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2014-11-23 21:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Strigidae
I'm about 3 weeks in and just took a short trip through a wormhole in a Heron. There was no one near the other side of the WH. However, I'm just learning how to probe, it was -1.0 sec, and my scanner probes showed a rather serious gate camp around a local jump gate, so I decided to turn around and go back. I don't think the residents of the other system realized the WH was there.

On the wormhole itself, it said it probably wouldn't last another day, so I assume I had about that much time to explore, if I had decided to.

Herons can move at about 10% of their normal speed and stay cloaked, but have to uncloak to load or launch probes, which is a hassle.

Like you, I'm training up for the Buzzard, but that's a lot of skill points. Meanwhile, I'm taking a day to train up to try this T1 frigate exploring ship out:

JonnyPew's Explorer Magnate

A friend of mine has been trying it out and having fun in low/null sec.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2014-11-23 21:38:58 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
Katlyn Koreth wrote:
That was a great breakdown, thank you very much!

So long story short, I shouldn't enter one with just a T-1 frigate and a proto-type cloaking device?

Is the Covert Ops ship (buzzard for me), really that much more combat-capable? I understood all exploration frigates to be generally weak in combat.

Is it common to scan down a site, then return with a bigger ship? Is that even possible?

Thanks!


It's not the combat, it's the cloak, a covops ship can easily avoid gatecamps because the campers will have to decloak you with a ship or cans to attack you. Also if you cloak when you initiate warp they have a tiny, tiny frame in which to lock you whereas a Heron gives them a good few seconds.

In general, you should avoid wormhole sites with sleepers in them. The sleeper loot isn't bad but the cans are pretty terrible vs the amount of effort you invest.

Quote:
Once interacted the site disappears in 3 hours and w-hole sites always have sleepers in them.


As of Oceanus, I think, there are now enemy-free null-class sites in wormholes in addition to sleeper sites.

The most recent patch did indeed add null sec sites to c1 through c3 space. C4 through c6 did not get them, as it was meant to accommodate people in lower class holes.

If you have just started the game, wormhole space is a great place to practice scanning and learning how to escape. Trying to engage sleepers at that level will probably cause your ship to violently explode unless you run the sites with friends that can rep you up, and even then it's still possible you might explode.

That said, wormhole space is some of the most rewarding space and I highly recommend checking it out at least once.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Navaa Mar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-11-23 22:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Navaa Mar
I would recommend getting ISK the guide and reading up on wormholes. Their write-up is very easy to read and explains the mechanics very well in my opinion. Not to mention the quality write ups on almost every other part of EVE. After almost four years I still go back to it from time to time for finer details of things.

http://www.isktheguide.com/
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#13 - 2014-11-23 22:51:12 UTC
Katlyn Koreth wrote:
That was a great breakdown, thank you very much!

So long story short, I shouldn't enter one with just a T-1 frigate and a proto-type cloaking device?

Is the Covert Ops ship (buzzard for me), really that much more combat-capable? I understood all exploration frigates to be generally weak in combat.

Is it common to scan down a site, then return with a bigger ship? Is that even possible?

Thanks!

Lot's of people do just that - find a wormhole, bookmark the entry (and exit!) and go switch out from their scan frig into a cruiser/battlecruiser and return to do sites.

It's quite possible though in low class wormholes to have one ship that can do both things, like a Stratios.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#14 - 2014-11-23 23:58:39 UTC
Once you are able to fit a battlecruiser and (more importantly) are able to afford the loss of both the BC and your capsule, seeking out a C1 or C2 wormhole is something I would encourage.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#15 - 2014-11-24 10:42:13 UTC
Even in a C2 BCs really struggle. They take ages, need to be over tanked to survive that inevitable 2 wreaking shots in a row and are slow because over tanked means less DPS. Then your hanging out exposed for long times.

Yes i did it. But recent buff to sleeper RR makes it a bit harder. I also lost a few BCs. These days i just don't really solo WH stuff much. But then again we are now in a C5.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Shon Anzomi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-11-24 15:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shon Anzomi
Morgan Strigidae wrote:


a) I'm about 3 weeks in and just took a short trip through a wormhole in a Heron. There was no one near the other side of the WH.



b) I don't think the residents of the other system realized the WH was there.



A friend of mine has been trying it out and having fun in low/null sec.



a) Lucky you :) Normally you want to be careful if you find wormhole in a system that has been stripped down of all the anomalies and signatures and has high traffic. It could mean the people did just about everything they could and now there may be someone waiting on the other side of wormhole to pop those small ships like bubbles. I had it done to me and now I factor this in until some new surprise.

b) Is it nullsec or wormhole system we are talking about? Survival of wh inhabitants relies on knowing what the signatures are and if they are wormholes where they lead. If it is nullses you are also better off assuming someone is camping that wormhole. Especially if it is HS to null hole. Basically dont make decisions on hostiles motivation but on their capabilities (e.g. you don't ask do they want to kill me? Instead you ask Can they kill me?)

Oh and OP go visit youtube there are great videos about wormhole space from lot of people, so you will know what to see. If you really dont know what to expect in wormholes, lookup "Sleepers" and make sure you either completely avoid all "forgotten" and "unsecured" data/relics or warp at 100km to get a flavour of what lies there :)
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#17 - 2014-11-24 17:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitrah
Do a search for wormhole fundamentals on YouTube. They're a little bit out of date (referring to ladar/radar/magneto metric instead of gas, data, relic, e.g.), but they're good enough still to get you started.

You likely won't die the second you jump in, even if you take a heron. If you go in with the expectation that everything through the wormhole is lost already, there is a lot of money to be made.

Just be aware that if you stay in one place for too long, you will likely get uninvited guests.

Check my bio for an eve university class on what the hunters are doing to find you.