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Unlimited skill queue isnt

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Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-11-20 03:44:06 UTC
Actually this is particularly noticeable for wormhole residents, especially those without a high-sec static. You either have to keep all the skillbooks you'll need with you in the hole, or venture into dangerous territory when you finally do need them. It'd be much easier to inject them first, then queue them up for your 4th day of training while you are still in the hole.

But all in all I see no convincing reason why you shouldn't be able to inject skills whenever and EVE should be as free as possible.
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#42 - 2014-11-20 08:10:40 UTC
prevents you from training the skill when you don't have its prerequisite skills trained.

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#43 - 2014-11-20 10:14:09 UTC
If there is already a validation on training skills at training time, sure, go ahead and pull a redundant verification.
If its gonna take the dev time to add one when you qeue the skill, then no, this is a small QOL change for most, and even then, it isn't so great an idea as to be worth large amounts of development time IMO

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-11-20 12:27:48 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

You are so freaking absessed with an 'injection' mechanic, for the sake of being stubborn, that you don't realize how stupid you sound in trying to rationalize continued annoyance in skill queue management with red-herring arguments that are now long dead.

That is a bad mechanic. Period.

F

You're embarassingly poor-quality trolling hasn't moved me in the least. However, for the vanishingly small chance that you're being serious, I'll point out your obsessive refusal to acknowledge the difference between what skills are currently in your head and actuallty training them. If you have no skill in frigate you cannot fly the frigate; you need to train it. You cannot train any T2 frigate until you have trained frigate to 5; your mind will not be able to understand how to. There's no point picking up the book as it won't make any sense without the prerequisite learning; you would not be able to absorb (inject) the information in the book, let alone put it into practice (training).

As for your military connection: no army with any level of competence would even list a man for field duty without his passing first basic training.

A mental midget writes
Shivanthar
#45 - 2014-11-20 22:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
I'm mostly with Feyd with this one. Feyd, when you start telling people "inject even not pre-req is not met", literally everyone will be against to your idea. So, let the system do it for you. Let the training queue receive books as the same way as skills. That way, people have to go purchase all the skill books they need, return to their stations and just put books in their skill queues after pre-req skills, making them auto-inject when time comes.

I think ccp would be doing something similar like this. I know because I am pretty sure I read a csm or dev post somewhere clearly implying that they're going to work on a way to make this happen.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-11-21 12:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:


What I mean is this....

Now that we have this awesome shiny unlimited skill queue, why the frack am I still prevented from injecting a skill



Because this would completely break the 'if you could fly it before, you can fly it now' grandfather system, which prevents pilots from no longer being able to fly ships that they could once fly before.

Only working suggestion imo is to allow you to que up skillbooks so that they inject ONCE you meet the pre-reqs, if that is possible without a coding nightmare.

/thread.

Still, think this is a non-issue
Shivanthar
#47 - 2014-11-21 17:42:38 UTC
Arronicus wrote:


... Only working suggestion imo is to allow you to que up skillbooks so that they inject ONCE you meet the pre-reqs, if that is possible without a coding nightmare.
...


This.
11/10

Also my previous post prior to yours. I'm also talking about this.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-11-21 17:57:02 UTC
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:

You're embarassingly poor-quality trolling hasn't moved me in the least. However, for the vanishingly small chance that you're being serious, I'll point out your obsessive refusal to acknowledge the difference between what skills are currently in your head and actuallty training them. If you have no skill in frigate you cannot fly the frigate; you need to train it. You cannot train any T2 frigate until you have trained frigate to 5; your mind will not be able to understand how to. There's no point picking up the book as it won't make any sense without the prerequisite learning; you would not be able to absorb (inject) the information in the book, let alone put it into practice (training).

As for your military connection: no army with any level of competence would even list a man for field duty without his passing first basic training.

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself that I am only talking about removing the queue load dependancy, not the actual training dependancy.

But hey, lets use your own remedial example...

Lets say said 'basic training' is composed of two courses, which must be done in order...

- physical training (1 month), followed by...
- hand-to-hand combat (2 weeks)

You (and todays EvE queue) is saying the training planner or platoon leader simply cannot put the dates for hand-to-hand combat training up on the platoon bulletin board and schedule the h-to-h classes, until the platoon physically finishes its physical training course first.

Then, when the PT course ends, and the platoon leader finds himself down with the flu and off base, the entire platoon sits idle for 3 days, until he can drag arse onto the base and pin the h-to-h course dates on the bulletin board for them to start.

No one is saying they can start h-to-h before finishing PT, we are just saying let the damned planner put the f#$)(#ing course on the bulletin board & schedule!

F#P($#*)(!

F

Would you like to know more?
Sgt Soulless
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2014-11-21 19:00:50 UTC
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Injection of skills you do not have to prereqs for is a very common request. It is not the same task as opening up the skill queue. Hopefully things will reach the point that we can also have this change made. I do not think the lack of it invalidates the current improvements to the skill queue.



Geez I can't believe anybody from CCP is even considering allowing skills to be injected without having the skill prerequisites meet first. I mean seriously just how easy do you intend to make this game. Keep it up and before long this game is gonna get very BOOOOORING. The new skill training queue is fine as is. You don't have to cater to everyone's needs because of laziness. I mean before the change I had to log on to update my skill queue every single day and now it's like once a month which I consider a HUUGE improvement. SO what more do you need. Quit been lazy and be happy with the current changes the older veterans as you describe had it way harder in the past.


God I hope that was meant to be sarcastic, but just in case it wasn't...

Tell me; are you or were you ever deriving significant satisfaction from the challenge of buying skills, right-clicking them, injecting them, and then dragging them from your skill list into the queue? Is this hardcore enough for you? You say the OP's request would make the game "BOOOOORING". Do you actually find it fun to wait for level 5 prereqs to finish before you can inject the next skill needed to allow the use of a module or ship? Do you derive entertainment value from right-clicking on skill books or dragging and dropping skills from one list to another?

In case it's not sinking in, my point is that skill queuing is not directly involved in the entertainment value or challenge provided by the game. To argue against the OP's proposed change based on the idea that it devalues the game in those respects is utterly ridiculous. The skill queue has always been intended as a background task. If they wanted skill training to require significant player input or have significant impact on the entertainment value and challenge of the game, they wouldn't have made a passive skill training system in the first place. If keeping ahead of their skill queue is the only motivation a player has to log in, then they probably just shouldn't be playing the game.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#50 - 2014-11-22 07:01:09 UTC
Acquiring and holding skills is time, effort and risk. Even if its not a great deal of such, its still there.

Having a skill auto-inject and train upon completion of requisites would be ideal, but is that even possible?

skills would have to appear in the training queue for just being in your hangar, and then what happens if you leave your hangar? Would they auto-clear? or would the client just run a check when you're adding it to the training queue and then another check when it comes time to train?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-11-22 10:58:53 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself that I am only talking about removing the queue load dependancy, not the actual training dependancy.

But hey, lets use your own remedial example...

Lets say said 'basic training' is composed of two courses, which must be done in order...

- physical training (1 month), followed by...
- hand-to-hand combat (2 weeks)

You (and todays EvE queue) is saying the training planner or platoon leader simply cannot put the dates for hand-to-hand combat training up on the platoon bulletin board and schedule the h-to-h classes, until the platoon physically finishes its physical training course first.

Then, when the PT course ends, and the platoon leader finds himself down with the flu and off base, the entire platoon sits idle for 3 days, until he can drag arse onto the base and pin the h-to-h course dates on the bulletin board for them to start.

No one is saying they can start h-to-h before finishing PT, we are just saying let the damned planner put the f#$)(#ing course on the bulletin board & schedule!

F#P($#*)(!

F

You are capable of training anything in the skill queue; that's how it's set-up. You can't train anything if you haven't learnt how to. I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself, but your requirement to schedule training when you don't even understand what it is you intend to train is ludicrous.

As for your use of the military analogy: the second is not conditional on the first; they are part of the same thing. You can be taught H-t-H without having past PT; you just won't be as good as someone who has achieved required fitness.

You're coming across as a desperate whiner. It's almost embarassing. Please stop.
Alruan Shadowborn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-11-22 13:11:01 UTC
When this change was made, CCP explained they could not allow injection of skills without pre-reqs, as their grandfathering code allows the training of any injected skill, even if the pre-req's are no longer met.

Though they did mention that that may be reviewed in the future.

Personally, I think it is fine though
brinelan
#53 - 2014-11-23 03:10:33 UTC
Back when I was a new player there was no skill queue, so if you had a bunch of 1x and 2x skills you trained them when you were online and set one that hopefully wouldn't finish before your next login. We learned to think ahead and train skills around our play time but have a level 5 or two for those times when you knew you wouldnt be able to log in for a bit and a really long one to let train a little here and there to make sure you weren't going to stop training.

Be happy you even get a skillqueue....
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-11-23 12:01:08 UTC
brinelan wrote:
Back when I was a new player there was no skill queue, so if you had a bunch of 1x and 2x skills you trained them when you were online and set one that hopefully wouldn't finish before your next login. We learned to think ahead and train skills around our play time but have a level 5 or two for those times when you knew you wouldnt be able to log in for a bit and a really long one to let train a little here and there to make sure you weren't going to stop training.

Be happy you even get a skillqueue....

Hahaaaaaa.... I was wondering how much more of this the bittervets could take. Thanks for a truly entertaining post! Roll
Shivanthar
#55 - 2014-11-24 11:39:12 UTC
brinelan wrote:
Back when I was a new player there was no skill queue, so if you had a bunch of 1x and 2x skills you trained them when you were online and set one that hopefully wouldn't finish before your next login. We learned to think ahead and train skills around our play time but have a level 5 or two for those times when you knew you wouldnt be able to log in for a bit and a really long one to let train a little here and there to make sure you weren't going to stop training.

Be happy you even get a skillqueue....


When there were first humans, there weren't any fire, tyre and tools to make humans lives easier.

Be happy that you have a working system that educated you to read,write and use your computer and mouse at this time in order to express your thoughts and don't even ask any more since humanity shouldn't improve any single bit more...

-"What kind of sorcery is this!" the man asked himself...

Coding implementation at the time t1 should and will be improved at time t2 in order to compete with market, improving codebase and player experience. No matter how some conservative playerbase want the game to stay same or don't think it is NOT going to change...

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#56 - 2014-11-24 12:37:43 UTC
You can enter every ship you have skills for now. You don't need skills to activate modules. If you miss a modules skill prerequisite, the module stays offline.

Comparable to this new possibility it seems to be a logical step to do following:
- Allow to inject skills always.
- Allow to train injected skills, if the prereqisites are reached in queue before.

If you try to remove i.e. level 3 of a skill, while level 4 is still inserted in queue, you'll get an error message.
So far it should be able to check prereqs for already injected skills too.
I see no conflicts to present possibilities in game.

The endless skillqueue could only be the first step in order to create further demand of user accounts for plain skilling reasons.
So far it's a reasonable business decision of CCP. But maybe not possible with existing code directly or not priorized yet.

Only my 5 cents.
Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#57 - 2014-11-24 12:45:33 UTC
brinelan wrote:
Be happy you even get a skillqueue....
No.

Usually we don't live in yesterday. But a lot of players seems to do so. OK, freeze your live at its present point too. Take your retirement pension and keep off of improvement discussions. Twisted

People won't ever be happy with their present situation. We all want more and new achievements/challenges.
Stop progression and innovation and you will stop aquiring new players. That's all folks. Blink
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