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[PROPOSAL] Anti-cloaking device / stopping frag warping
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-12-13 06:27:01 UTC
Shirly Schmidt wrote:
its not just about 00 warfare, lowsec has it even worse as you dont even have the option to drop bubbles and cans to decloak them when they are moving about in system.


There's no real reason to AFK Cloak in lowsec, you just log in and look for stragglers. When your done, just cloak up and log off.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#42 - 2011-12-13 18:27:34 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:

I will make you a deal. Take away local, COMPLETLY, and I will gladly support the creation of anticloaking technology. I never said it wasn't a good idea, I said it wasn't a good idea with local the way it is. And I want to emphasis completly, that means no sov mods, no nothing, just delayed local like it is in wormholes.

After this the game would evolve, you wouldn't be able to react until an attack is already underway. This would cause a lot of outrage, but it would also encourage teamwork, something that many WH corps and alliances have, while 0.0 elite corps can't even fathom the thought of ratting with a few other guys for safety.

The other difference is that W-space has no cynos or hot drops. Also it takes a lot of effort to get a sizable invasion fleet in a wormhole. So when you blow up an attacking ship it takes way more effort for that pilot to get back in the wormhole than just flying back home and getting in another covops.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Trin Xi
#43 - 2011-12-13 22:33:06 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Fragwarping is using a non-covops cloak and a MWD to be able to warp as soon as you decloak.

If CCP considers this a bug being exploited, they should patch it.

As for the ability to decloak ships: just no. There would no point in a cloaking device if every wormhole corp and nullsec alliance could just pull out the magic decloaker whenever they felt like it. You're not talking about balance, you're talking about nerfing it to near uselessness.

Not sure. If it were a module that required BS level PG and a high slot, had a 30km range, and disabled your warp drive while turned on... I could see some cat and mouse type play come out of this where it ends up being a pack of SBs vs. a BS.

Maybe that could be a role for a Black Ops BS. Sure you can decloak the cloakies with that tachyon net module, but you get to sit there and take it for 45 seconds if you switch that thing on.

Post with someone else's main™.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2011-12-13 23:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Trin Xi wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Fragwarping is using a non-covops cloak and a MWD to be able to warp as soon as you decloak.

If CCP considers this a bug being exploited, they should patch it.

As for the ability to decloak ships: just no. There would no point in a cloaking device if every wormhole corp and nullsec alliance could just pull out the magic decloaker whenever they felt like it. You're not talking about balance, you're talking about nerfing it to near uselessness.

Not sure. If it were a module that required BS level PG and a high slot, had a 30km range, and disabled your warp drive while turned on... I could see some cat and mouse type play come out of this where it ends up being a pack of SBs vs. a BS.

Maybe that could be a role for a Black Ops BS. Sure you can decloak the cloakies with that tachyon net module, but you get to sit there and take it for 45 seconds if you switch that thing on.


No touchy Black Ops....

They are used for insertion into cyno jammed systems and general hot dropping of covert cloakies....that's it.

and THAT is the problem.

Your idea would only make it worse...Black Ops are not combat viable ships..inspite of their initial stats...just expensive jump bridges for a specific small niche that favors the user of said bridge and not the ship itself.

Much like the titans are doomed to reach of today....doomsdays that can't shoot anything but capitials and genrally used as giant ship slinging ships....at least they have combat vaiability.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with cloakies...we haev a few afk cloakers in our space...and while they tend to be annoying...its good fun for the pvp gangs who go hunting...

If you can't deal with it....then you have no business living there in the first place..its mental warfare at best...keen use of tactics...or just general lol's.

If local gets removed...and CCP is still threatening to do so.... then this entire discussion is a compelte waste of time.

There will always and ever be afk cloakers...


"Just because you don't see it...doesn't mean its not there"

You think its bad now?

Wait until sheer and total paranoia sets in.... then you'll REALLY start crying your brains out.

PS: Fragwarpping isn't an exploit...CCP acknowledges it as a valid tactic...in fact they made some adjustemtns to it...a couple expansions ago.... I seriously doubt they will ever consider it an exploit at that point.

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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#45 - 2011-12-14 02:16:24 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:

PS: Fragwarpping isn't an exploit...CCP acknowledges it as a valid tactic...in fact they made some adjustemtns to it...a couple expansions ago.... I seriously doubt they will ever consider it an exploit at that point.

We know its not an exploit, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. To be honest though the only reason I dont rage too much about the mwd trick is because I use it more often than other players do.

It still surprises me that so many people fly around low sec unscouted, yet none of them ever just stick a cloak in one of their highs. Makes any ship as good as a cov ops for moving about, I use it to get my non-t3 pve ships about all the time ;D

But still, yeah, even I'll admit its lame.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Trin Xi
#46 - 2011-12-14 02:24:50 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Trin Xi wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Fragwarping is using a non-covops cloak and a MWD to be able to warp as soon as you decloak.

If CCP considers this a bug being exploited, they should patch it.

As for the ability to decloak ships: just no. There would no point in a cloaking device if every wormhole corp and nullsec alliance could just pull out the magic decloaker whenever they felt like it. You're not talking about balance, you're talking about nerfing it to near uselessness.

Not sure. If it were a module that required BS level PG and a high slot, had a 30km range, and disabled your warp drive while turned on... I could see some cat and mouse type play come out of this where it ends up being a pack of SBs vs. a BS.

Maybe that could be a role for a Black Ops BS. Sure you can decloak the cloakies with that tachyon net module, but you get to sit there and take it for 45 seconds if you switch that thing on.


No touchy Black Ops....

They are used for insertion into cyno jammed systems and general hot dropping of covert cloakies....that's it.

and THAT is the problem.

Your idea would only make it worse...Black Ops are not combat viable ships..inspite of their initial stats...just expensive jump bridges for a specific small niche that favors the user of said bridge and not the ship itself.

Much like the titans are doomed to reach of today....doomsdays that can't shoot anything but capitials and genrally used as giant ship slinging ships....at least they have combat vaiability.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with cloakies...we haev a few afk cloakers in our space...and while they tend to be annoying...its good fun for the pvp gangs who go hunting...

If you can't deal with it....then you have no business living there in the first place..its mental warfare at best...keen use of tactics...or just general lol's.
[snip]...

I have no problem with cloakies, rather like them, in fact. That's why the counter would be so risky, and so weak that you'd need to think it extraordinarily worthwhile to scan a 30km radius just for a decloak. The cloaked ship still would have the upper hand, in general. Stay 30km away from the Black Ops. Nor does it have to be a Black Ops, but it should be something big and expensive... and risky.

Post with someone else's main™.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2011-12-14 02:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Trin Xi wrote:
I have no problem with cloakies, rather like them, in fact. That's why the counter would be so risky, and so weak that you'd need to think it extraordinarily worthwhile to scan a 30km radius just for a decloak. The cloaked ship still would have the upper hand, in general. Stay 30km away from the Black Ops. Nor does it have to be a Black Ops, but it should be something big and expensive... and risky.



The thing is...a covert ops frigate on average is 20-40 million ISK dpeending on how its fitted.

Force Recons are a bit more expensive....but they are intended for more obvious purposes...and not likely used in AFK hunting unless its intent-to-kill


Frigates are ideal as they are cheap and easily replaced...once they light that cyno..they are dead anyway.

So you asking for a tool to solve a problem that is not a problem....and with an arbetery range of 30km....

Logic seems a bit self defeating...and a little overkill.

10 million candle light flash light with an range of 30km in a 1 million mile area wide field and a posse with various guns looking for a mosquito sized target......and the bulb on that flashlight is platnium lined...and the ship is so expensive its insane...not to mention fragile as glass while using said flashlight.


don't make a whole hell of alot of sense...with all due respect.


As mentioned before...best anti-cloak measure...defense fleet on hand.... bait ship..your own cyno frigate hot and ready...cloaked.......call him in...hot drop the buggar when he hot drops you...and let the fur fly with great ethusasim and epic proportions.

Problem solved.

works as intended. Sorry.

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Trin Xi
#48 - 2011-12-14 03:43:46 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:

don't make a whole hell of alot of sense...with all due respect.

Yup. But if you were going to do it at all, it should be something like I described. I agree that it's probably better to do nothing.

Post with someone else's main™.
5p4c3 M4n
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-12-14 21:58:14 UTC
I would just like CCP to tell us any ideas they have about fixing this broken came mechanic and when this will take place? If a dev could respond?

Please don't tell me "it's not a broken came mechanic". that is a whiners way out. This is a sandbox environment, meant to resemble real life in space. if this were real life hundreds of people would have developed an anti cloaking device long long ago. For a sandbox to work there cannot be a device/mod/skill that makes you "untouchable".

CCP please respond to this request for a time frame to fix this broken game mechanic.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-12-14 23:05:06 UTC
5p4c3 M4n wrote:
I would just like CCP to tell us any ideas they have about fixing this broken came mechanic and when this will take place? If a dev could respond?

Please don't tell me "it's not a broken came mechanic". that is a whiners way out. This is a sandbox environment, meant to resemble real life in space. if this were real life hundreds of people would have developed an anti cloaking device long long ago. For a sandbox to work there cannot be a device/mod/skill that makes you "untouchable".

CCP please respond to this request for a time frame to fix this broken game mechanic.


Who said it was a broken game mechanic in the first place?

One would argue you are just as guilty as you claim those who said it isn't.

I suggest you take a step back and rethink your argument before you make foolish statements again.

*Oh and nice of you to "hide" in a NPC corp.*

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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-12-15 04:06:21 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:

I will make you a deal. Take away local, COMPLETLY, and I will gladly support the creation of anticloaking technology. I never said it wasn't a good idea, I said it wasn't a good idea with local the way it is. And I want to emphasis completly, that means no sov mods, no nothing, just delayed local like it is in wormholes.

After this the game would evolve, you wouldn't be able to react until an attack is already underway. This would cause a lot of outrage, but it would also encourage teamwork, something that many WH corps and alliances have, while 0.0 elite corps can't even fathom the thought of ratting with a few other guys for safety.

The other difference is that W-space has no cynos or hot drops. Also it takes a lot of effort to get a sizable invasion fleet in a wormhole. So when you blow up an attacking ship it takes way more effort for that pilot to get back in the wormhole than just flying back home and getting in another covops.


Concerning this I have put forward an idea to help mitigate the risks of hotdrops.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=46293&find=unread

I agree that hotdrops would become more of an issue so the whole cyno mechanic needs to be looked at with the modification of local.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#52 - 2011-12-15 09:12:46 UTC
"I moved out to null for fleet fights but all I got were these stupid hot drops"

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-12-15 11:11:58 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Suggesting a solution for a problem (or two) that isn't there. ....


/this

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#54 - 2011-12-15 14:28:05 UTC
Trin Xi wrote:
Not sure. If it were a module that required BS level PG and a high slot, had a 30km range, and disabled your warp drive while turned on... I could see some cat and mouse type play come out of this where it ends up being a pack of SBs vs. a BS.

Maybe that could be a role for a Black Ops BS. Sure you can decloak the cloakies with that tachyon net module, but you get to sit there and take it for 45 seconds if you switch that thing on.


A drag bubble off-gate with your magic decloaker sitting in the right spot and you've nerfed Cov Ops into oblivion. It will be completely useless for anything OTHER than afk cloaking.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Shirly Schmidt
Paranormal Phenomena
#55 - 2011-12-15 14:31:49 UTC
The original topic was a decloaking device for frag warping, mainly when someone jumps through a gate and cloaks immediately before their initial cloak wears off.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-12-15 15:22:39 UTC
Shirly Schmidt wrote:
The original topic was a decloaking device for frag warping, mainly when someone jumps through a gate and cloaks immediately before their initial cloak wears off.


It's called a gatecamp with smart bombs and/or drones.

herp derp.

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#57 - 2011-12-15 17:09:00 UTC
Shirly Schmidt wrote:
The original topic was a decloaking device for frag warping, mainly when someone jumps through a gate and cloaks immediately before their initial cloak wears off.

So you're suggesting this decloaking module NOT work on covert ops cloaks?

It sounds less atrocious when you put it that way.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#58 - 2011-12-15 17:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kim Lesley Hartman
Trader Bait wrote:
two part proposal:

- add a module into the game that allows for a chance to deactivate a cloaking device.

- eliminate the ability for people to frag warp a ship. this is an exploit in my opinion and is abused on every ship type.

current state: eve-online has to for lack of a better term become eve cloaks-online. Everyone flys ships that can cloak. Cloaks can be fitted on nearly any class of ship. There needs to be a module that can counter act this effect in my opinion.

The anti-cloaking device would only be allowed to be fit on a light interdictor or heavy interdictor and would have the same penalty as the current warp disruption field generator module, where a player would not be able to be remote repped or helped in anyway while the module is active.


Or you stop gate camping and learn to catch ships other ways.Roll

p.s. I have never seen CCP classify it as an exploit. Source please.
5p4c3 M4n
Doomheim
#59 - 2011-12-15 19:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: 5p4c3 M4n
Drake Draconis wrote:
5p4c3 M4n wrote:
I would just like CCP to tell us any ideas they have about fixing this broken came mechanic and when this will take place? If a dev could respond?

Please don't tell me "it's not a broken came mechanic". that is a whiners way out. This is a sandbox environment, meant to resemble real life in space. if this were real life hundreds of people would have developed an anti cloaking device long long ago. For a sandbox to work there cannot be a device/mod/skill that makes you "untouchable".

CCP please respond to this request for a time frame to fix this broken game mechanic.


Who said it was a broken game mechanic in the first place?

One would argue you are just as guilty as you claim those who said it isn't.

I suggest you take a step back and rethink your argument before you make foolish statements again.

*Oh and nice of you to "hide" in a NPC corp.*


It's obviously a broken game mechanic as it makes someone using it untouchable. Stop all your high and mighty and think before you talk. Looks like you're the one with the foolish statements.

I'm hiding in an NPC corp because I use this broken game mechanic all the time. It makes me untouchable and it proves CCP has a broken sandbox everytime i sit cloaked in a system from dt to dt.

Also the cloaky nulli T3's make it even easier to use this broken game mechanic as it's almost impossible to catch them without a lot of people and a lot of work.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2011-12-15 19:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
5p4c3 M4n wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
5p4c3 M4n wrote:
I would just like CCP to tell us any ideas they have about fixing this broken came mechanic and when this will take place? If a dev could respond?

Please don't tell me "it's not a broken came mechanic". that is a whiners way out. This is a sandbox environment, meant to resemble real life in space. if this were real life hundreds of people would have developed an anti cloaking device long long ago. For a sandbox to work there cannot be a device/mod/skill that makes you "untouchable".

CCP please respond to this request for a time frame to fix this broken game mechanic.


Who said it was a broken game mechanic in the first place?

One would argue you are just as guilty as you claim those who said it isn't.

I suggest you take a step back and rethink your argument before you make foolish statements again.

*Oh and nice of you to "hide" in a NPC corp.*


It's obviously a broken game mechanic as it makes someone using it untouchable. Stop all your high and mighty and think before you talk. Looks like you're the one with the foolish statements.

I'm hiding in an NPC corp because I use this broken game mechanic all the time. It makes me untouchable and it proves CCP has a broken sandbox everytime i sit cloaked in a system from dt to dt.

Also the cloaky nulli T3's make it even easier to use this broken game mechanic as it's almost impossible to catch them without a lot of people and a lot of work.



You sir are not untouchable.... your invisible...thats the difference.

You can still be killed by area effect weaponry....you can be found by disruption of your cloak...and you can be tracked/ambushed/blown up with some very careful planning.

Your also unarmed for the duration of your cloak...not to mention unable to activate any modules unless your covert cloak capabale and that only grants warp.

That is not a broken game mechanic.

That is aragonance on your part....and sheer stupidity in others.

You call it broken because you "think" its broken because you use it to its fullest capabilities.
You just didn't bother to think about how to counter it propperly...so your answer is to cry like a fat baby in need and tell everyone else they are stupid and demand CCP Fix it.

Keep telling yourself its broken...you might even start to beleive the lie.

No one said taking down a cloakie was supposed to be easy....stop treating it as such.
I have been on recieving end and giving end of such things.

I even nearly lost my covert ops frigate to a near miss of a space bomb....

Count on it...you sir are not as untouchable as you think you are....and I'm quite sure there are a great many people who would be more than happy to prove you wrong.

PS: And stop treating it as its a broken mechanic becasue solo peopel can't take you down....eve is not a solo game...its a multiplayer game...that means getting a team together...

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