Player Features and Ideas Discussion

whatever. people enjoy it, they play to relax or collect stuff. Its their game, so
its not up to you to decide what is engaging or legit gameplay and whats not, its subjective
to everyone himself, people do what they enjoy to do thats it.

As a reasoning, thinking human being, yes, it is.

It can either be legitimately defined as engaging, or it can't.

Mining does not fit that definition.

It is not engaging gameplay. It does not require you to actually do anything, make any decisions, it is bar none the lowest form of gameplay possible in EVE besides ship spinning.

So encouraging it at the expense of other playstyles directly hurts player retention.

That's what.

CCP has said it themselves, PvE centric playstyles hurt player retention. Whereas people who do engage in interaction with other people are much, much more likely to subscribe long term.

Friend, I think you are being a little obtuse on purpose here. Their intent in that devblog is pretty clear:

Wars are currently not harder to avoid than before - if anything they are easier, and there are other ways to avoid them than staying in a NPC corp in contrast that was stated above. There has been a clear failure in implementing their intent and this should be fixed by changes to the wardec mechanic like those proposed in this thread.

Hmmph, i ran an alliance not long ago.

It had some mission runners, it had some miners, most of all it had aspiring indy personel and a couple of would be combat pvpr's in training. We had pocos, pos, and a good time......
We survived a few wars.....took a few dings, and drew some blood in others. Then a group im sure that could be rightly said to have null connections kicked from null decided to try and move in the region....they dumped on everyone.

Few wanted to team up in a coalition for better defense that another group was trying to get all us miner and indy corps/alliances to agree to.

Most of us lost everything.....in my Alliance's case at our pique during this 2 month war we had a total of 57 characters spread out amongst 44 players.
5-6 total rose to the drums of War, i held off for 1 week....then the rest all came into TS one day....first time i saw everyone at once begging for me to let them fight. We had the ships, we had the gear....all we had to do was Blob the enemy 1 target at a time with the numbers we had at the best level of ship competency we could muster across the board on avg.....and we could of hurt them a little bit....maybe even earned some respect or made them back off a little or at least come to the negotiation table.
But no, the agreed time for CTA....a weekend date so we could muster everyone during the TZ of the enemy....6 logged in.
The following weeks.....those same who begged refused to log in game but would log in TS to beg for a surrender or something else while listening to their corpmates actually logged in fighting and dying...and at times having fun.

I pulled the plug on that alliance....we began to kick members from the corp as well. I know for a fact at least half those former members no longer play. I was not willing to carry on SRP, nor give people paychecks for disloyalty and turning their backs on those they said were friends in a time of need. I am glad those I know that no longer play are gone.

'carebearism' is the deathknell to EvE....it needs to be dealt with....the loop hole of wardec dodging needs to be closed.
Also....missioners and miners DO need to be forced to fight from time to time....
IF you can not fight/defend for what you have then you DO NOT desreve it period.....even if that is a Corp/Alliance name...you dont need it because you dont deserve the respect of having one if you are not willing to try and defend it, same with POS or pocos.
Now as to ganking vs dec'ing ...ganking is good and all if it has an objective and i wil be the first to admit my former alliance and even my corp did so when a dec against other miners turned into a corp drop....you leave us no choice but to gank...and so QQ about either one is just dumb...play the game, and if you want something put some effort into it, fight for it in one way or another....just dont drop corp and run like a carebear pansy.

i will reiterate:
1.) I support the idea to changing the fees as Tora proposed.
2.) I would support a change to the mechanics that would at least give a corp 1 Killright per person that dropped corp during war....even if that meant i could shoot a former corp mate myself for going soft.
3.) I would even support a change that prevented a corp being closed or members dropping once war has been declared.

Why is it good for the game to make it cheaper for Tora to dec Goons? What does it accomplish? Goons don't fight back, and they have no way to do so. All it does is cause Goons to play in highsec on alts. Until there is a meaningful way for the Defender to force combat, I see no reason to perpetuate more pointless wars by mercs.

I'm always trying to make this game better. Small corps can already pretty trivially disband corp and reform. The only ones who can't do that are the ones with substantial assets in place...and why exactly should we be trying to protect those folks? I mean the 25 and under corps are in a pretty good spot to just roll corp...is there any real need to protect those corps that refuse to do so?

I just don't see much value in Marmite wardeccing 150 bigger corps/alliances at once. It's not creating interesting gameplay...just easy gatecamp kills for Marmite, who then dock up if the big boys come to look for a fight. I mean why is it good for the game to make it easy for Marmite to decc more people without any mechanic in place to incentivize Marmite to engage in actual combat when they lack an overwhelming advantage?

Honestly, if I were asked to change wardeccs, my #1 change would be to make the attacker face real consequences for running away if the defender formed a fleet and came looking for a fight. Docking up and playing on alts after you declare war should not be costless.

As far as "helping" smaller corps, the only real help they need is making it easier to roll corp. If they are big enough or proud enough to not want to do that - go learn to fight.

Well, Marmite's would be the main beneficiary of a significant drop in wardecc fees against large organizations.

As far as protecting "new small corps," while I'm sure that is a laudable goal, I don't really see how that would materially benefit the game. They already have a very easy time rolling corp to avoid wardeccs, and those that don't utilize that option seem perfectly willing to fight out their wars. If anything from the whining and gnashing of teeth on the forums, it seems that by and large the 25 and under shops are already quite willing to roll corp and foil the wardeccers.

If anyone needs protection it's new players who want to join highsec PvE corps, but such protection would not depend on the size of the corp. A 100 man corp full of unskilled PvE players is far more in need of protection than a 15 man PvE/PvP corp full of hardened vets.

So it seems to me that making it more expensive to decc small groups doesn't much help the game, nor does making it cheaper to decc large groups, unless you give them some recourse against attackers docking up and playing on alts when the defenders come and try to actually fight the war.

You dont get it do you Veers, that is evident from the weeks and months of shiptoasting i have seen from you.
A corp of 100 unskilled PVE players does not deserve to exsist. EvE is a player vs plaver (PvP) game no matter how you dice it. The sooner a new player learns that the better. PVE Activities....ie missioning, PI, Incursions, Mining, and the actual act of hauling stuff around is all related to a PvP oreinted landscape of control of markets and resources and creting the best darn personal player story and sandcastle one can make. Its not about gaining ISK, or collecting things in a Hangar to not show off....its about player interaction and so if small corps cant survive or larger CAREBEAR or unskilled corps that have no clue what they are doing can not survive then they need to rethink their approach to EvE.

Activity wise = I am a Carebear
Metality wise = I am not a carebear and i dont want them here because they ruin my and many others gameplay.

They need to learn how to play EvE....and that means learning how to be diplomatic, be a spy, be a thief...learn how to be devious and cunning....and learn also that if they want something they have to reach out and take it....because no one will give it to them. Because no one has had anything given to them that is worth their salt in what ever profession they play in EvE.

ive given my position....
Too bad your too much of a carebear or an idiot to understand. Im really close to being the next to add to your bounty pot.