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Unlimited skill queue isnt

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Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-11-19 18:04:35 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
An 'unlimited' skill queue without being able to also pre-inject and load successor skills, is kind of like putting a nuclear submarine into service and extolling its virtues of not having to surface for six months, but then turning around and telling the captain he still has to surface his boat every day like an old diesel sub 'because'...

F


Except that he won't have to resurface his submarine every day because he meets all of the prerequisite training for his class of submarine.

Personally, I think that the improvements they've made to the queue are more than sufficient. You can now fill your queue up with literally years worth of training and just let your account sit. If there is a skill that you want to queue, but aren't allowed to because it's prerequisites aren't fulfilled, it isn't that hard to pay attention to your queue and inject what ever skill you're waiting for as soon as the prerequisite skills have been trained. Just check your queue every once in a while. As soon as you finish training the prerequisites, inject the skill you are waiting for and put it at the top of the queue. How much easier does it need to be?

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-11-19 18:12:30 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
What the mental midgets are failing to understand, is no one is proposing an injected successor skill actually be trainable until it meets its pre-req. If the queue runs into a skill that doesn't have its pre-req, it just stops...or skips over that skill.

What is stupid is having an unlimited skill queue that is not unlimited..based on the need to wait until a pre-req is trained before you can simply inject the successor skill and load it into the queue.

Here's an example. Someone in the armed forces (protecting your goddamned way of life by putting his bawls on the line) cannot log into EvE for a full two month period while on deployment in the suck. They have paid for their account, been told a shiny new 'unlimited skill queue' has now been rolled out, yet they STILL can't load said queue with all the skills needed to train a Damnation command ship...

...all because they can't inject and load the goddamned successor skills into said queue, because logging in every four or five days just to inject a skill and re-work the queue simply isn't possible.

tldr;
Don't be a d1ck. Support our troops. Support non-dependancy skill injection and queue loading.

F


In that case the said person shouldn't be playing eve, period. What you want is for CCP to make a game where you only have to log in once to get started, come back next year (after playing WoW or whatever) then log on again to be able to fly tech 3 strategic cruisers or command ships. If you don't have the time to log on to train the prerequisite skills (as it is so easy to do now) then you don't have time to even play eve. What CCP should have stated before release updates is you would now have NEARLY UNLIMTED SKILL QUEUE TRAINING just in case they get complaints from lazy whiners.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-11-19 18:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Wolf Incaelum wrote:
... If there is a skill that you want to queue, but aren't allowed to because it's prerequisites aren't fulfilled, it isn't that hard to pay attention to your queue and inject what ever skill you're waiting for as soon as the prerequisite skills have been trained. Just check your queue every once in a while. As soon as you finish training the prerequisites, inject the skill you are waiting for and put it at the top of the queue. How much easier does it need to be?

Again, tell me. How is being forced to log in just to inject a successor skill and add it to the queue immediately after a predecessor skill finishes compelling gameplay?

Wait, you mean I still need to load 'another' skill (that I really dont want to train right now) after the predecessor finishes, so that while I am sleeping (or out of the country) I am still training 'something', until I can log in again to inject the actual skill I want to be training?

But wait, wasn't that what this new unlimited duration queue was trying to FIX, in getting away from twitch-based skill queue management?

Remember, I am NOT saying remove the actual skill training dependancy; even if a successor is loaded in the queue, if its predecessor hasn't completed yet it WOULD NOT TRAIN...it would skip, or pause the queue. NOTHING in this proposal changes skill planning, or the need to manage your skill plan or queue -- it just removes having to inject successor skills and load them in a twitch-based manner, which is EXACTLY what CCP was trying to move away from with the unlimited queue in the first place...

Let me quote CCP Seagul...

"To help people temporarily lacking access to an EVE client and generally remove annoyance, in Phoebe you will be able to construct and start training skill queues of unlimited time length."

Tell me brainiacs, how does what I propose not align to what CCP Seagul herself said???

F

Would you like to know more?
Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-11-19 18:30:15 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Tell me brainiacs, how does what I propose not align to what CCP Seagul herself said???


Sure thats a "good" excuse for posting your suggestion, but CCP Seagul's point is already fixed with the queue as is.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-11-19 18:38:12 UTC
Jackson Apollo wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Tell me brainiacs, how does what I propose not align to what CCP Seagul herself said???


Sure thats a "good" excuse for posting your suggestion, but CCP Seagul's point is already fixed with the queue as is.


Not if people are still twitch-managing their skill queues or forced to load 'filler' skills it isn't.

F

Would you like to know more?
Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-11-19 18:50:37 UTC
I can see we will be agreeing to disagree.

Sorry you have a very weak argument.

enjoy your thread!

o7
Ix Method
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-11-19 19:01:09 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Here's an example. Someone in the armed forces (protecting your goddamned way of life by putting his bawls on the line)

Hahaha... oh my days. Almost up there with 'The Best of Us'

Travelling at the speed of love.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#28 - 2014-11-19 19:06:58 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
What the mental midgets are failing to understand, is no one is proposing an injected successor skill actually be trainable until it meets its pre-req. If the queue runs into a skill that doesn't have its pre-req, it just stops...or skips over that skill.

Except right now you can train an injected skill if you don't have the pre-reqs.
This was brought in a couple of years ago when they did significant changes to some of the pre reqs for certain classes of ships.
So your request is asking/proposing exactly what you claim it isn't.

They would need to create a new category of 'applied but not injected' holding skills that you can't train till you meet the pre reqs, then move it from that to the normal injected skills as soon as you do meet the pre reqs (even if you then lost the pre reqs later).

This is a much more complex request than the simple switch you are making it out to be.
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-11-19 20:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Revman Zim
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
What the mental midgets are failing to understand, is no one is proposing an injected successor skill actually be trainable until it meets its pre-req. If the queue runs into a skill that doesn't have its pre-req, it just stops...or skips over that skill.

What is stupid is having an unlimited skill queue that is not unlimited..based on the need to wait until a pre-req is trained before you can simply inject the successor skill and load it into the queue.

Here's an example. Someone in the armed forces (protecting your goddamned way of life by putting his bawls on the line) cannot log into EvE for a full two month period while on deployment in the suck. They have paid for their account, been told a shiny new 'unlimited skill queue' has now been rolled out, yet they STILL can't load said queue with all the skills needed to train a Damnation command ship...

...all because they can't inject and load the goddamned successor skills into said queue, because logging in every four or five days just to inject a skill and re-work the queue simply isn't possible.

tldr;
Don't be a d1ck. Support our troops. Support non-dependancy skill injection and queue loading.

F


27 year Navy retiree here (retired in 12')

I have been playing EVE since 2008 on a different toon and made several deployments since that time. I never had a problem logging in and changing skills. This skill queue change would have been great back when I was active. There are always skills that you can queue that will fill the time.

What you are asking for is pretty dumb. You want to be able to buy all the future skillbooks, inject them without any requirements to be met and then load a queue up with these skills. That breaks lore, and is a significant change of how this game has been played. All because you are in a unique situation. Too bad. That is why they call it "the suck"

tldr; quit being a whiner and using your "exalted status" as a soldier to garner support for your dumb idea.You make the rest of those that are making TRUE sacrifices look bad.
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2014-11-19 20:47:26 UTC
Revman Zim wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
What the mental midgets are failing to understand, is no one is proposing an injected successor skill actually be trainable until it meets its pre-req. If the queue runs into a skill that doesn't have its pre-req, it just stops...or skips over that skill.

What is stupid is having an unlimited skill queue that is not unlimited..based on the need to wait until a pre-req is trained before you can simply inject the successor skill and load it into the queue.

Here's an example. Someone in the armed forces (protecting your goddamned way of life by putting his bawls on the line) cannot log into EvE for a full two month period while on deployment in the suck. They have paid for their account, been told a shiny new 'unlimited skill queue' has now been rolled out, yet they STILL can't load said queue with all the skills needed to train a Damnation command ship...

...all because they can't inject and load the goddamned successor skills into said queue, because logging in every four or five days just to inject a skill and re-work the queue simply isn't possible.

tldr;
Don't be a d1ck. Support our troops. Support non-dependancy skill injection and queue loading.

F


27 year Navy retiree here (retired in 12')

I have been playing EVE since 2008 on a different toon and made several deployments since that time. I never had a problem logging in and changing skills. This skill queue change would have been great back when I was active. There are always skills that you can queue that will fill the time.

What you are asking for is pretty dumb. You want to be able to buy all the future skillbooks, inject them without any requirements to be met and then load a queue up with these skills. That breaks lore, and is a significant change of how this game has been played. All because you are in a unique situation. Too bad. That is why they call it "the suck"

tldr; quit being a whiner and using your "exalted status" as a soldier to garner support for your dumb idea. You make the rest of those that are making TRUE sacrifices look bad.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-11-19 20:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Still waiting for someone to tell me how twitch-managing skill injections is compelling gameplay, in contrast to CCP Seagul's stated goal combined with the recent release of unlimited skill queue durations...

"To help people temporarily lacking access to an EVE client and generally remove annoyance, in Phoebe you will be able to construct and start training skill queues of unlimited time length." -- CCP Seagul

So obviously that change was implemented to appease 'whiners' right, and wasn't welcomed at all? Laughable.

I love what they did, they just didn't go far enough in pursuit of Seagul's own stated goal.

Someone explain to me how continued twitch-management of injecting successors and filling a queue with 'filler' skills between a predecessor and dependant successor skill is compelling EvE gameplay, and I will let this rest.

Until then, bad mechanic is bad. Period.

F

Would you like to know more?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#32 - 2014-11-19 21:19:01 UTC
Possibly because it's not 'twitch' game play.
Unless your reflexes are so slow that weeks of time is a single twitch to you.

It's not a 'bad' mechanic. It's a mechanic that avoids you being able to bypass availability of skill books in your region. So any change to allow early injecting needs to maintain some kind of physical risk as if you were carrying a skill book in your hold.
Say..... Any skill in 'holding' is automatically lost when you are podded so you have to buy the skill book again and an additional cost to convert it into a digital item.

Currently the gameplay of having to physically get & move skill books creates interaction and pilots in space. You have to make sure not to remove the aspect of pilots in space, trade in skill books, and the risk of moving skill books.

Could it be changed, sure. It however is not an automatic follow on from an extended skill queue as it has significantly larger impacts than simply removing tedium & artificial difficulty.
Iain Cariaba
#33 - 2014-11-19 21:22:22 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Again, tell me. How is being forced to log in just to inject a successor skill and add it to the queue immediately after a predecessor skill finishes compelling gameplay?

Let's look at this from the other side.

You say the current system is not compelling, well tell us how your idea is more compelling. How is the ability to go to Jita, buy every skillbook you'd ever want to use, inject them all, setup a queue, and then not log into the game for three years until you can fly a Titan compelling gameplay? As it currently stands, it is absurdly simple to setup a queue that stretches longer than the average deployment time of the average soldier.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-11-19 21:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
The rollout of the unlimited duration queue IN ITSELF invalidated any argument against loading long duration queues, people can do that already now. CCP did it. Its here.

Skill queues are no longer being used as a bullwhip to make people log in every 24 hours. Let that sink in first.

Then re-read Seaguls driver for recent changes, and what I propose..

"To help people temporarily lacking access to an EVE client and generally remove annoyance..."

So here we already now have an unlimited duration skill queue, that already lets people load it up with a years worth of skills, but you guys are nitpicking because I want to change said 1 year load from FILLER skills between predecessors and successors, with skills actually desired by the player as priority '1' instead?

You are so freaking absessed with an 'injection' mechanic, for the sake of being stubborn, that you don't realize how stupid you sound in trying to rationalize continued annoyance in skill queue management with red-herring arguments that are now long dead.

That is a bad mechanic. Period.

F

Would you like to know more?
Iain Cariaba
#35 - 2014-11-19 22:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
The rollout of the unlimited duration queue IN ITSELF invalidated any argument against loading long duration queues, people can do that already now. CCP did it. Its here.

Skill queues are no longer being used as a bullwhip to make people log in every 24 hours. Let that sink in first.

Then re-read Seaguls driver for recent changes, and what I propose..

"To help people temporarily lacking access to an EVE client and generally remove annoyance..."

So here we already now have an unlimited duration skill queue, that already lets people load it up with a years worth of skills, but you guys are nitpicking because I want to change said 1 year load from FILLER skills between predecessors and successors, with skills actually desired by the player as priority '1' instead?

You are so freaking absessed with an 'injection' mechanic, for the sake of being stubborn, that you don't realize how stupid you sound in trying to rationalize continued annoyance in skill queue management with red-herring arguments that are now long dead.

That is a bad mechanic. Period.

F

Yet you are entirely obsessed with being able to add every single skill you'd ever need at once, simply because you find it annoying. You have yet to demonstrate how this suggestion would improve the game, beyond you being less annoyed at having to log on once every six months to inject a dozen skills that will, collectively, take less than half a day to train to level 1.

Since you reside in highsec, you have easy access to all the skillbook you'd ever need. The residents of nullsec, however, don't have access to the abundance of highsec skillbooks. We can either jump clone back to highsec to buy them, and wait out the timer to jump clone back, fly an interceptor up to highsec, if we have the skills, or have them brought out to us. So your idea would be extremely beneficial to me, up to a point.

Now, imagine your idea was implemented back before the patch that added the compression array to POSes, and you were a nullsec miner that wanted a Rorqual to compress ore with. Imagine you had gone down the day before that patch was announced, spent half a billion isk on the Capital Industrial Ship skillbook, went ahead and injected it, cause you could in this scenario. Now, how would you feel to have spent half a billion isk on a skillbook you injected for a ship that just got made utterly worthless.

There are many reasons why your idea is a bad one that outweigh its annoyance factor to you. Your utter disregard for all arguments against your idea and your statement of "that is a bad mechanic, period" is on par with the highsec carebears and their nerf ganking stance.
SNORE LAX
FU TAX MAN
#36 - 2014-11-19 22:28:48 UTC
Why do Americans always try to make Mountains out of Molehills ? Serious question, cause they seem to do it with everything o_O

What the OP is essentially asking for is a complete overhaul of the entire skill que code .... does he not realize this ? And all for an extremely minor issue.

Also, people change their minds all the time. How many players have ever bought a skillbook ... only to resell it later on because they changed their mind ? Thank god for that injection pre-req mechanic, am i right ? Can you only imagine the headache it would cause CCP with countless noobs petitioning to remove X Dreadnaught/Carrier/Titan skill book injection from their skill que ?


-1 for the OP's issue
-99999999999 for the OP's Entitled/Poor Attitude
Iain Cariaba
#37 - 2014-11-19 22:34:51 UTC
SNORE LAX wrote:
-99999999999 for the OP's Entitled/Poor Attitude

Feyd's not usually this carebearish... wonder what's up.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-11-19 22:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Service members can find a trusted friend/ask spouse to log in to inject skills.


Iffy argument here. I served. I saw Marines give access to their cars while away to have them run the car and keep it from sitting. I personally was the custodian of a few cars while my friends in other units were deployed. Was even trusted with cash to cover expenses. Like one friend wanted car washed monthly and liked one place in particular to get washed at. I got x months of his deployment washing fees + some gas money and insurance since running out while gone. Once a week daily drive, 1 monthly spirited run on a nice highway but nothing extreme....friend came back to car that didn't have issues from sitting too long.

Moral of this story....I was trusted with several thousands of dollars in car and parts (modified cars, I could have just borrowed some parts and they would never know...but I didn't. If a service member can't find a friend to watch an account that is worth 15 a month....they have issues.



There is the spouse option if you have one. the eula thing about sharing accounts is a CYOA for CCP.

Married service member goes on deployment. Float hits Thailand (lets have the Marine get on a MEU, usually a mix of crap real world ops, SOC training ops, with liberty exercises in exotic ports like thailand). Old boy has fun in Thailand, too much fun. Wife finds out. trashes the account. If they petition this the no sharing rule gets CCP off the hook.

Lets have the Marine be a good boy. No other woman(women). they come back, wife did the skill things while deployed. CCP imo could not care less you shared the account.

Moral of this story...if you can't trust the spouse to inject in eve, you married the wrong person. This is the person you probably gave general power of attorney too before deploying, if not ass loads of special power of attorneys. Eve account should be the last thing you are worried about. POA's if they screw you hurt waaaaay more.
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2014-11-19 22:55:02 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:


Married service member goes on deployment. Float hits Thailand (lets have the Marine get on a MEU, usually a mix of crap real world ops, SOC training ops, with liberty exercises in exotic ports like thailand).



This is how I managed during my 7-11 month deployments. There would ALWAYS be a time every month or two that I would have access to the internet. Internet cafe's and a cheap laptop work wonders. No need for graphics, just able to log onto the client and queue up skills.

The account sharing is against the EULA and I would never suggest anyone do it. However, I am sure it happens.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-11-19 23:03:53 UTC
Revman Zim wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:


Married service member goes on deployment. Float hits Thailand (lets have the Marine get on a MEU, usually a mix of crap real world ops, SOC training ops, with liberty exercises in exotic ports like thailand).



This is how I managed during my 7-11 month deployments. There would ALWAYS be a time every month or two that I would have access to the internet. Internet cafe's and a cheap laptop work wonders. No need for graphics, just able to log onto the client and queue up skills.

The account sharing is against the EULA and I would never suggest anyone do it. However, I am sure it happens.



My take on eula is its the GM's way out when petitions come in. as soon as you say I gave away my account for (insert some story here) they probably copy and paste in canned response basically saying sucks to be you. Do see your point, but if trusted party does nothing wrong...no blood no foul and I don't see ccp looking to scour records to permaban people for doing it.
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