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War dec Fees
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#61 - 2014-11-19 15:39:43 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Not really. It makes wardecs more or less useless.

no, they arent useless if you wardec people who in fact play HS wars and will return fire. Without wardecs noone could be doing wars in HS.


And the people who won't return fire, who won't play during the war...

They either belong in an NPC corp, or not playing EVE at all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#62 - 2014-11-19 15:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:

They are and you know it, we all know it. If you want to hit a rivals assets then your better off just ganking them.


wardecs arent useless for the reason I mentioned above.
Yet they are ineffective if you want to harass people who doesnt play your style and know how to dodge a wardec - however thats absolutely fine, because eve is not exclusively about combat pvp, you know it better.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

And the people who won't return fire, who won't play during the war...
They either belong in an NPC corp, or not playing EVE at all.

you shouldnt wardec them to start with as you know they wont play with you anyways.

This is the reason why I left HS in first 2 months of my eve carreer for the mere purpose of pvp, compared to you who still sit there and cry a river about how hard griefing miners and mission runners in HS is.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2014-11-19 15:48:29 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

They are and you know it, we all know it. If you want to hit a rivals assets then your better off just ganking them.


wardecs arent useless for the reason I mentioned above.
Yet they are ineffective if you want to harass people who doesnt play your style and know how to dodge a wardec - however thats absolutely fine, because eve is not exclusively about combat pvp, you know it better.



Hence why I say they are useless, they are so easy to avoid and you can do it without spending a penny.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#64 - 2014-11-19 15:51:02 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

you shouldnt wardec them to start with as you know they wont play with you anyways.


They shouldn't be in player corps to start with if they don't want to play with others.

There already is a place for them, that place is NPC corps.


Quote:

This is the reason why I left HS in first 2 months of my eve carreer for the mere purpose of pvp, compared to you who still sit there and cry a river about how hard griefing miners and mission runners in HS is.


PvP does not just belong in low and null. EVE is a PvP game, and PvP belongs everywhere. That includes highsec.

If people don't want to deal with wars, then they belong in NPC corps. Simple as that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#65 - 2014-11-19 15:51:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Hence why I say they are useless, they are so easy to avoid and you can do it without spending a penny.


they arent useless for the reason I told already. Without wardec there would be absolutely no way to make war in HS.
You just need a bit of talent of picking proper corps for HS wars who wouldnt dodge.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2014-11-19 15:54:00 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:


they arent useless for the reason I told already. Without wardec there would be absolutely no way to make war in HS.
You just need a bit of talent of picking proper corps for HS wars who wouldnt dodge.


People dont put strategic assets in corps that stick around for war decs.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#67 - 2014-11-19 15:54:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

They shouldn't be in player corps to start with if they don't want to play with others.

oh well, they play with others but not the way you want.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

There already is a place for them, that place is NPC corps.

and yes, they go into NPC corps, once you try to force them to your playstyle.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

PvP does not just belong in low and null. EVE is a PvP game, and PvP belongs everywhere. That includes highsec.

pvp is not just combat. its also industry, mining, trading etc. Are you a noob that you dont know this basics?

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If people don't want to deal with wars, then they belong in NPC corps. Simple as that.

exactly what they are doing for the duration of wardec.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#68 - 2014-11-19 15:56:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

People dont put strategic assets in corps that stick around for war decs.

so? What is this argument about?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2014-11-19 15:59:16 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

People dont put strategic assets in corps that stick around for war decs.

so? What is this argument about?


Lets say GIA find out the corp that supplies NC. with their ships in a deployment zone. We cant wardec it as they would just skip to another corp the moment the war dec lands and continue as normal. This is why war decs are useless.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#70 - 2014-11-19 16:00:11 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

and yes, they go into NPC corps, once you try to force them to your playstyle.


It's not "my playstyle", it's the bar for player corps. If you can't or won't meet that bar, the NPC corps are always recruiting.

People playing games with the corp creation mechanics is not the intended gameplay, it's as simple as that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#71 - 2014-11-19 16:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:

Lets say GIA find out the corp that supplies NC. with their ships in a deployment zone. We cant wardec it as they would just skip to another corp the moment the war dec lands and continue as normal. This is why war decs are useless.


oh well yes, for your specific purpose wardecs might be useless, thats it.
deal with it. suicide their freighters as your alliance used to, worked fine so long. No reason to nerf everyone else.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

It's not "my playstyle", it's the bar for player corps.

no its not. HS and Eve is not just about combat pvp. Really not. Learn Eve buddy.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

People playing games with the corp creation mechanics is not the intended gameplay, it's as simple as that.

its intended play as long as CCP wont disagree, simple as that.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2014-11-19 16:15:03 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:


oh well yes, for your specific purpose wardecs might be useless, thats it.
deal with it. suicide their freighters as your alliance used to, worked fine so long. No reason to nerf everyone else.


So we should be forced to play the game the way they want?

See, that sorry argument works both ways. Outside of a few specific purposes war decs arnt worth the isk you spend on them. People are forever complaining about us ganking ships for no profit but we are not being given any other options here.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#73 - 2014-11-19 16:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:

So we should be forced to play the game the way they want?

See, that sorry argument works both ways. Outside of a few specific purposes war decs arnt worth the isk you spend on them. People are forever complaining about us ganking ships for no profit but we are not being given any other options here.


indeed.
wardecs dont suit your purpose, they help same way for you like for your foe - both ways.
As if GSF wouldnt employ neutral logistic corporations within HS or NPC alts.
What do you think your logi guys would feel about undodgeable wardecs for HS?

Generally they are still far from useless for people who (want to) wardec each other and have fun in HS,
which was your original statement.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#74 - 2014-11-19 16:23:18 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

its intended play as long as CCP wont disagree, simple as that.


Please find me a dev quote saying that playing leapfrog with corp creation mechanics is the intended method to get rid of wardecs.

Because from having read the dev blog, it sure looks like the intended method is the surrender mechanic.

Which would make dec dodging a textbook exploit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2014-11-19 16:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

So we should be forced to play the game the way they want?

See, that sorry argument works both ways. Outside of a few specific purposes war decs arnt worth the isk you spend on them. People are forever complaining about us ganking ships for no profit but we are not being given any other options here.


indeed.
wardecs dont suit your purpose, they help same way for you like for your foe - both ways.
As if GSF wouldnt employ neutral logistic corporations within HS or NPC alts.

Generally they are still far from useless for people who (want to) wardec each other and have fun in HS.


So why should people be able to avoid having their assets attacked like this?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#76 - 2014-11-19 16:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:

So why should people be able to avoid having their assets like this?


why should they not? You gave a special case of 0.0 alliance logistics as argument, which are
in fact just a small subset of all HS players; what you asking for is a nerf of whole HS population just
to cather your needs to interrupt 0.0 logistics?

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Please find me a dev quote saying that playing leapfrog with corp creation mechanics is the intended method to get rid of wardecs.

Because from having read the dev blog, it sure looks like the intended method is the surrender mechanic.

Which would make dec dodging a textbook exploit.

I dont need a dev quote, the existing 10 years old mechanics confirm my stance. If you think players are exploiting
loopholes in game mechanics petition them, CCP usually punishes such behavior with (perma)bans.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#77 - 2014-11-19 16:29:41 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
what you asking for is a nerf of whole HS population just
to cather your needs to interrupt 0.0 logistics?


No, what we are asking for is for a broken mechanic to be fixed. For a meaningless mechanic to be given meaning.

If closing an exploit nerfs the "whole HS population", that's their fault for using the exploit instead of playing the game correctly.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-11-19 16:30:39 UTC
Helios Panala wrote:
They would have over 1000 systems to hide it in.

Let's stop right there. If it's true that a corporation can drop this anywhere in high-sec and the target corp doesn't get an idea of where it is, then it defeats the purpose as it's impractical for moderate-sized corps to survey the known universe every time they get wardecced.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#79 - 2014-11-19 16:33:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

No, what we are asking for is for a broken mechanic to be fixed. For a meaningless mechanic to be given meaning.

wardecs have a meaning, like I pointed out multiple times in this thread so stop reiterating on a wrong statement, it wont become true. If you want to pew pew people in HS, you will need to find same of your kind.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

If closing an exploit nerfs the "whole HS population", that's their fault for using the exploit instead of playing the game correctly.

there is no exploit, just regular gameplay by rules CCP set up for 10 years already.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#80 - 2014-11-19 16:36:35 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

wardecs have a meaning


Consensual PvP sure isn't part of that meaning, no matter what carebears tell themselves to justify their risk aversion.

Quote:

there is no exploit, just regular gameplay by rules CCP set up for 10 years already.


Well, that shows what you know about it.

It's nowhere close to ten years old. Do you even bother learning about what you're talking about, or just spew carebear talking points?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.