These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New to lasers, please help me understand
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kerry EnRys
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-11-19 07:52:11 UTC
Using a nightmare:
Note that I took off the 2 Tracking enhancers II I had since I did not see the benefit, I think here is my first problem.
The Imp Navy MF seems to out do the Gleam at almost all ranges yet EFT lists the DPS of Gleam L as quite a bit more than the Imp Navy MF. I also know that following the logic of other damage enhancing mods (Ballistic control systems and drone damage amps), having more than 4 heat sinks gives a small and increasingly smaller bonus.

Question 1:

I get a HUGE variation in damage, from 400 to 2k+ on hits, on same targets, why is this? What can I do do narrow the difference between the top and bottom end of the damage?

Question 2:

Does the tracking enhancer increase the damage or narrow the damage difference or just lower the chance of missing?

Question 3:

Why the big difference in real damage between the Gleam and the Imp Navy MF as opposed to the listed damage in the tooltip? The MF seems to do very high volley damage, Gleam shoots faster but does a lot less damage. Is there a link between tracking, damage and the Gleam doing so little? If I fit more tracking, will the Gleam do more damage?

[Nightmare]
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

EM Ward Field II
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
EM Ward Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster

Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Imperial Navy Multifrequency x4
Gleam L x4
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#2 - 2014-11-19 08:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
1. Tracking and the different types of hits (for example, a Wrecking shot does 4* damage and ignores tracking)

2. Tracking enhancer increases Optimal, Falloff and Tracking speed. So B and C. More tracking (and optimal/falloff, if you're fighting out of optimal) = higher chance to hit, making there be less misses and narrowing the damage gap by reducing the minimum (not actually, but you should maybe get the point), but it is C because it lowers the chance of missing.

3. I'm not really sure. Sounds like you're fighting at different ranges with Gleam/MF, because Gleam is shorter range (25% shorter) and better tracking (25 better) as well as more damage, but neither of them affect RoF. I think you're getting better hits with the MF because you're A. fighting in MF optimal (which is higher than Gleam optimal) or B. you're not having as many tracking issues with MF because of the range. But if you're fighting at gleam range, I'm not sure.

Also, you should change the [Nightmare] bit to [Nightmare, namegoeshere] so that we can import it to EFT directly.
Naomika Iwafumi
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-11-19 08:43:44 UTC
I'm going to assume that you are shooting at optimal range for this.

Quote:
Question 1:

I get a HUGE variation in damage, from 400 to 2k+ on hits, on same targets, why is this? What can I do do narrow the difference between the top and bottom end of the damage?


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

TLDR ver : Tracking/transversal speed affects the quality of the damage dealt

Better Tracking(via tracking enhancers)/Lower transversal(having them fly straight at you)/Staying within optimal range


Quote:
Question 2:

Does the tracking enhancer increase the damage or narrow the damage difference or just lower the chance of missing?


Refer to the answer to the 1st question.

Quote:
Question 3:

Why the big difference in real damage between the Gleam and the Imp Navy MF as opposed to the listed damage in the tooltip? The MF seems to do very high volley damage, Gleam shoots faster but does a lot less damage. Is there a link between tracking, damage and the Gleam doing so little? If I fit more tracking, will the Gleam do more damage?


Reading up on the how damage is dealt by turrets will help. But in short you want to keep transversal speed as low as possible and better tracking speeds.

Yes tracking will help. but there are other factors that you should count in.

Hope that can help.

Also i would recommend pulse lasers with scorch. and a mjd to get out to that optimal range (70-80km) and just shoot them from that range where they are flying at you in a straight line instead.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-11-19 08:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
Long Story short.

Massive Heat sink penalties.

4x Faction Heat sink is more than enough

drop the T2 heat sinks for tracking enhancers

Fit Mega Pulse Lasers II's with Scorch and Conflag.


I mean seriously.

If you loose this thing with 6 heat sinks you will be laughed at

edit : might even end up as ALOD

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2014-11-19 09:55:05 UTC
That's a lot of heat sinks...
and a lot of bling...
(I know I left my ishkur around here somewhere)

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kerry EnRys
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-11-19 10:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerry EnRys
Lovely answers and a great help. Thanks for confirming my suspicion that tracking = better quality hits, definitely losing 2 heatsinks and adding the enhancers back and adding a tracking computer to the mid.

I will stick with the tachys for now, don't have the skill for pulse laser t2 just yet.

I was just stacking heat sinks because EFT tells me I get higher DPS that way, although reading up says I shouldn't get so much extra. Real world DPS is a LOT different to the static DPS reported in EFT and tooltips because of transversal/tracking.

A lesson well learned.

Thanks you for your great and constructive criticism, much appreciated.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2014-11-19 12:07:41 UTC
Kerry EnRys wrote:
Lovely answers and a great help. Thanks for confirming my suspicion that tracking = better quality hits, definitely losing 2 heatsinks and adding the enhancers back and adding a tracking computer to the mid.

I will stick with the tachys for now, don't have the skill for pulse laser t2 just yet.

I was just stacking heat sinks because EFT tells me I get higher DPS that way, although reading up says I shouldn't get so much extra. Real world DPS is a LOT different to the static DPS reported in EFT and tooltips because of transversal/tracking.

I lesson well learned.

Thanks you for your great and constructive criticism, much appreciated.

I like tachs also but you should train pulses to t2 trust me its well worth it.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-11-19 15:30:03 UTC
Why...oh why...so many heat sinks.

Ever heard of "stacking penalties".....

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#9 - 2014-11-19 16:24:22 UTC
Expect to get locator agent'd and scanned after posting that fit.

JUSTK is recruiting
Kerry EnRys
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-11-19 16:47:49 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Expect to get locator agent'd and scanned after posting that fit.


Why do you think I didn't post the name of the character that uses it in the fit ;-)
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2014-11-19 18:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
A better Nightmare fit IMO:

[Nightmare, Range PvE]

Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Shield Boost Amplifier II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

NOTES:
- keep at range at all times... use Standard L for things between 50 to 100 km... Multi for things between 25 and 50... and Gleam for anything closer (Gleam gives a small tracking bonus).
- You should not be taking large amounts of damage... if you are and your repper can't keep up, use the MicroJumpDrive to pop 100km away and pick off the targets as they come to you.
- Use geometry to find the best angles to attack from in conjunction with the MJD.


edit: I should explain a little more...

In general, Laser weapons operate better at range (between half-optimal and the edge of optimal range). The reason for this is that they generally have poor tracking compared to other weapons of the same class... especially when it comes to long range weapons, which Tachyons are.
That said... the Nightmare has tracking bonuses which REALLY help out at close range. However, they will still have issues with medium to small targets. Thus, you should try to nuke those first when you have a range advantage (and tracking doesn't matter as much).

How did you Veterans start?