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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1381 - 2014-11-17 15:39:33 UTC
Oh, yes, the civilian gun.

People use that to keep aggression timers on someone trying to use a logoff.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#1382 - 2014-11-17 16:13:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Oh, yes, the civilian gun.

People use that to keep aggression timers on someone trying to use a logoff.



its just funny its a on dessy and not a noob ship where they come preinstalled.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1383 - 2014-11-17 16:22:16 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Oh, yes, the civilian gun.

People use that to keep aggression timers on someone trying to use a logoff.



its just funny its a on dessy and not a noob ship where they come preinstalled.


*shrugs*

"for the lulz" I can only assume.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1384 - 2014-11-17 17:02:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
If the gankers want to kill it, they should need to muster enough dps to do it the first time.


If you don't want it bumped, you should have to muster up the *snicker* one character and two webs necessary to avoid bumping with 100% surety the first time.


Guess what? Since I can already travel with 100% safety using cloak + mwd + brick tank, there is no way I am going to expose myself to significant risk by stuffing my stuff in a vulnerable hauler. If the only way to reach a comparable level of safety is to find someone to web for me (who can easily be ganked) that is a huge increase in effort and risk, and makes the ship effectively worthless to me.


We showed a few pages back that mwd-cloaky machs do, infact, get ganked. So no, you do not fly with 100% safety.


You still don't get it do you? That Mach wasn't fit for travel and wasn't travelling....it was sitting in Uedama bumping freighters so they could get ganked. The anti gankers came and ganked the mach. Why do you persist in peddling falsehoods?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1385 - 2014-11-17 17:23:45 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:


Seriously?
Like 8sec to enter warp instead of 10 makes a difference when you have only half tank?
Even my NM with travel fit can get past 230k. This guy with 3 extenders + inv field and another 1600 plate in lows would have had a lot more tank.

Bad guy is bad.


Fitting plates slows your alignment down and fitting extenders makes your sig larger. Both make you easier to catch. Travel fits are ment to make you faster not slower and easier to lock.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1386 - 2014-11-17 17:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
baltec1 wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Seriously?
Like 8sec to enter warp instead of 10 makes a difference when you have only half tank?
Even my NM with travel fit can get past 230k. This guy with 3 extenders + inv field and another 1600 plate in lows would have had a lot more tank.

Bad guy is bad.


Fitting plates slows your alignment down and fitting extenders makes your sig larger. Both make you easier to catch. Travel fits are ment to make you faster not slower and easier to lock.


Wrong. In highsec (note, this is not null!), travel fit battleships best use is to deter gankers from even bothering in the first place. For battleships, where bumping to prevent warp is not possible, that means gankers need to have enough DPS on field to knock you down in the first wave. When you reach or eclipse 300k ehp, the gankers give up, because they simply don't have that amount of DPS available. The cloak + mwd trick is another useful weapon in the arsenal, because even if somehow the gankers have enough dps to crack 300k in 25 secs, they know that most likely you will just cloak up and escape.

Result - the gankers don't bother, and focus on freighters.

That's why you virtually never see properly bricked tanked travel fit battleships dying.
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#1387 - 2014-11-17 17:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
baltec1 wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Seriously?
Like 8sec to enter warp instead of 10 makes a difference when you have only half tank?
Even my NM with travel fit can get past 230k. This guy with 3 extenders + inv field and another 1600 plate in lows would have had a lot more tank.

Bad guy is bad.


Fitting plates slows your alignment down and fitting extenders makes your sig larger. Both make you easier to catch. Travel fits are ment to make you faster not slower and easier to lock.



if you have a hard time catching a battleship without plates or extenders then adding them won't help you enough to catch them.

edit: talos targeting a nightmare 3.4 sec or 3.2 with 4 extenders on the nightmare.
Jessica 1
Oberon Retirement Castle
#1388 - 2014-11-17 17:35:38 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I have in-game fitting window showing around 350k EHP with a DCU II, 2x reinforced bulkheads II, 3x Transverse bulkhead I

This is in the same range as tank-oriented freighters - I'm sure people using the hauler would want as much as possible but this range should be reasonable, yes?


Yes definitely has to be reasonable. Because it will be a sad day in EVE for everyone when someone with 10 trial accounts and isoboxer needs to spend more then 20mil to gank the thing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1389 - 2014-11-17 18:28:54 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Seriously?
Like 8sec to enter warp instead of 10 makes a difference when you have only half tank?
Even my NM with travel fit can get past 230k. This guy with 3 extenders + inv field and another 1600 plate in lows would have had a lot more tank.

Bad guy is bad.


Fitting plates slows your alignment down and fitting extenders makes your sig larger. Both make you easier to catch. Travel fits are ment to make you faster not slower and easier to lock.



if you have a hard time catching a battleship without plates or extenders then adding them won't help you enough to catch them.

edit: talos targeting a nightmare 3.4 sec or 3.2 with 4 extenders on the nightmare.


Thats the point we are making. The mach we linked was faster than the brick tank monstrosities they are using and it still got caught. All this sorry argument is showing is just how bad some high sec players are.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1390 - 2014-11-17 18:32:03 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


You still don't get it do you? That Mach wasn't fit for travel and wasn't travelling....it was sitting in Uedama bumping freighters so they could get ganked. The anti gankers came and ganked the mach. Why do you persist in peddling falsehoods?


Citation needed.
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#1391 - 2014-11-17 18:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
baltec1 wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Seriously?
Like 8sec to enter warp instead of 10 makes a difference when you have only half tank?
Even my NM with travel fit can get past 230k. This guy with 3 extenders + inv field and another 1600 plate in lows would have had a lot more tank.

Bad guy is bad.


Fitting plates slows your alignment down and fitting extenders makes your sig larger. Both make you easier to catch. Travel fits are ment to make you faster not slower and easier to lock.



if you have a hard time catching a battleship without plates or extenders then adding them won't help you enough to catch them.

edit: talos targeting a nightmare 3.4 sec or 3.2 with 4 extenders on the nightmare.


Thats the point we are making. The mach we linked was faster than the brick tank monstrosities they are using and it still got caught. All this sorry argument is showing is just how bad some high sec players are.



a mach with no tank is really weak and easy to kill. what others are saying is that brick tank doesn't change weather you can get caught and will improve your survival rate.

and yes there are fail fits for travel you posted one. a proper travel fit will have at a min extenders in the mids
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1392 - 2014-11-17 18:39:45 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Lady Rift wrote:



a mach with no tank is really weak and easy to kill. what others are saying is that brick tank doesn't change weather you can get caught and will improve your survival rate.

and yes there are fail fits for travel you posted one. a proper travel fit will have at a min extenders in the mids


The fit Veers tried to use was a 4-5 bil armour/shield buffer that a dreadnought would have no problem hitting and included such wonders as factions plates and gist MWD. It was dramatically slowed down to the point where a nano dread would also beat it into warp using just one Hyperspacial rig and a set of med grades.

He said people cant catch it, we just showed that we catch much faster machs.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1393 - 2014-11-17 19:06:12 UTC
Needs a high slot to function as a stealth mobile WH base.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1394 - 2014-11-17 19:31:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


You still don't get it do you? That Mach wasn't fit for travel and wasn't travelling....it was sitting in Uedama bumping freighters so they could get ganked. The anti gankers came and ganked the mach. Why do you persist in peddling falsehoods?


Citation needed.


I could tell you (it's staggeringly obvious to me), but I want to work on your analysis skills a bit. If you actually want any credibility when discussing highsec (and not Goon infested sov), you should be able to quickly skim that KM, look at the fit, and look at the people on it, and tell me why it's obviously a bumping mach, and not a travel mach. Go for it buddy, show us that you actually have some semblance of a clue when discussing highsec. Fingers crossed!

As for your other crazy claims, a mach with a faction cloak + deadspace MWD is virtually uncatchable in highsec, even with some extenders and plates thrown up. That the gankers are invariably -10 in such large gank groups makes the task even more impossible, and is the reason why these travel fit brick tanked machs never die. For all your rhetoric, the one KM you found was a ganker bumping mach meeting it's doom. On the other hand, you can easily find tens of brick tanked freighters and JFs going kaboom thanks to bumping.

What does this tell you? Put 2 and 2 together.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1395 - 2014-11-17 20:20:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Don't bullshit me.

Now both of you knock off the crap.

[edit: Oh, and that was in a 0.5. If the sec level goes up, you need even more people.

Those were legit API verified KM's I found on Eve Kill by using the high value section to quickly get rid of all the cheap ships.
So... No BS. I'm sure I could have found a larger gank which used more people if I'd gone looking specifically for it, however I went with the first Freighter kills I found, and would have posted them no matter what the stats actually said.
Additionally not all the kills I found were in 0.5 space.
Judging by the damage each Talos managed on the 6 Talos kill most of the rest of the kills I found were overkilling by a significant margin as the Talos were managing barely 10-12k damage in some of those mails.

So, stop with the aggression, 30+ people are not needed. Just 6 skilled people can do it as logs show quite handily.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1396 - 2014-11-17 20:39:07 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

So, stop with the aggression, 30+ people are not needed. Just 6 skilled people can do it as logs show quite handily.


If you're using catalysts, then twenty are needed for a safe margin. In a 0.5 system.

If you have to gank at any higher sec level, then you need still more. So stop telling me that it's not a lot of people, because it is. Higher sec levels make it ridiculous, and that's the whole point of this.

The Bowhead quite simply does not justify such a large tank. A freighter can already avoid a gank that takes twenty, thirty, or more people with a mere one guy with webs.

When such a thing is possible, freighters caught without this defense measure should be killed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1397 - 2014-11-17 21:10:13 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


You still don't get it do you? That Mach wasn't fit for travel and wasn't travelling....it was sitting in Uedama bumping freighters so they could get ganked. The anti gankers came and ganked the mach. Why do you persist in peddling falsehoods?


Citation needed.


I could tell you (it's staggeringly obvious to me), but I want to work on your analysis skills a bit. If you actually want any credibility when discussing highsec (and not Goon infested sov), you should be able to quickly skim that KM, look at the fit, and look at the people on it, and tell me why it's obviously a bumping mach, and not a travel mach. Go for it buddy, show us that you actually have some semblance of a clue when discussing highsec. Fingers crossed!

As for your other crazy claims, a mach with a faction cloak + deadspace MWD is virtually uncatchable in highsec, even with some extenders and plates thrown up. That the gankers are invariably -10 in such large gank groups makes the task even more impossible, and is the reason why these travel fit brick tanked machs never die. For all your rhetoric, the one KM you found was a ganker bumping mach meeting it's doom. On the other hand, you can easily find tens of brick tanked freighters and JFs going kaboom thanks to bumping.

What does this tell you? Put 2 and 2 together.


That you are terrible at EVE and it is impossible for you to learn. Feel free to use that fit of yours as I will love to see that ALOD.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1398 - 2014-11-17 21:25:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


That you are terrible at EVE and it is impossible for you to learn. Feel free to use that fit of yours as I will love to see that ALOD.


Keep holding your breath....

Did you do your homework yet and figure out why your linked KM was of a bumping mach and not a travel mach?
ashley Eoner
#1399 - 2014-11-17 21:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Looking at some recent kills on Eve Kill
Ark, 11 Catalysts.
Obelisk 12 significant mix of Talos Brutix & Catalyst+ 1 KM stamper
Charon 6 Talos + 1 newbie ship
Charon 12 Talos, 4 Brutix + some random KM stampers.

So.... yea, lets stop with these delusions about 30+ people to kill a Freighter shall we Kaarous.


Don't bullshit me.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/42463226/

20 catalysts, and that was with an anti tank.

Now both of you knock off the crap.

[edit: Oh, and that was in a 0.5. If the sec level goes up, you need even more people.

You're dumb if you're ganking freighters in higher sec then .5. Every major trade route has at least one .5.

My point still stands. One guy did 13 damage another did 1148 another did 2075 another did 2193. Just looking at the damage done you can clearly see that the majority of the pilots didn't even do anywhere near the damage they are capable of doing in .5 (which for my catas is about 16500 damage with the standard 25 second response L 2 bait concord away). None of the gankers reached what was their full damage capability. That clearly shows that 19 gankers (one of the 20 is not a ganker with the civilian gatling) were way overkill for that obelisk.

Yes I'm aware the civilian gatling pilot is there to keep the freighter from logging off. With that many people though you shouldn't even need that.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1400 - 2014-11-17 21:33:23 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

You're dumb if you're ganking freighters in higher sec then .5. Every major trade route has at least one .5.


PvP doesn't just belong in 0.5 systems. You're basically admitting to me that it does take large numbers of people, in all but specific situations.

So thanks for that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.