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[Dev Blog] Phoebe Travel Change Update

First post
Author
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#161 - 2014-11-17 16:44:56 UTC
Also disable mining links inside force fields, there's no excuse for allowing fleet boosting from perfect safety.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#162 - 2014-11-17 17:24:16 UTC
If only someone had looked at zkillboard and seen how many rorqual killmails there were.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#163 - 2014-11-17 17:30:52 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.

Wow, just wow.

Quote:
the ship's clearly in a wonky state

Understatement of the year. I would say broken beyond all repair, not that it was ever in a particularly good place. Should I bother asking for the skill points to Capital Industrial Ships V back on my alt?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
#164 - 2014-11-17 18:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
Kismeteer wrote:
If only someone had looked at zkillboard and seen how many rorqual killmails there were.


Rorqual: https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/kills/

Ore Dev edition: https://zkillboard.com/ship/33687/kills/
Telistra
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#165 - 2014-11-17 23:41:48 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.


Ok, I am sorry but I have to ask this question...

...How is it people with access to Google could see this (And the droves of people on the forums telling you) and you didn't?
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#166 - 2014-11-18 01:08:56 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.


This is all you need it to do to make it a somewhat better ship:

Quote:
Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses:

  • -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level
  • 10% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman warfare links per level when in deployed mode
  • 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level.
  • 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level.
  • 50% Bonus per level to Mining drone Yield when in deployed mode.


Role Bonuses:
  • 900% bonus to the range of survey scanners
  • 200% bonus to the range of cargo scanners
  • 100% Bonus to Mining drone velocity


Can fit Clone Vat Bay
Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously
5 LY Base jump range (10 LY)


Quote:
Industrial Mode:

  • Reduce to 30 or 60 second cycles.
  • Potentially give it a resistance bonus to the ship's shield (15-20%?)


With all level 5 and 3 mining drone rigs (2 Tech II), you would yield about 1500/minute, about a hulk with T1 strips and boosts.
it would suffer due to the drones having to travel, thus not actually equaling a hulk in practice.


No. No, no, no. It's simpler than that.

Remove the drone bonus, add the fatigue bonus, add the 5 LY base jump range, and change "10% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman warfare links per level when in deployed mode" to "10% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman warfare links per level".
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2014-11-18 01:30:54 UTC
if only there was a group of people with the relevant experience to consult for suggestions
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#168 - 2014-11-18 05:51:00 UTC
Altrue wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.


What? Shocked

So you nerf the Rorqual jump range, you give his unique compression ability to POS modules, and now that this ship is left nearly-useless, you tell me that there are no short-term plans to bring it back to life? Straight

Really sadCry
Thanks for the update anyway.

Edit: I'm aware that giving him something amazing like a forcefield generator or something would be a huge time-sink, but surely there could have been plans to buff it somehow. Make it viable in some area.


TY CCP for having me waste Skill points training into Compression to give it to any new player with a POS now.. who doesn't need standings to drop one.. thank you CCP for making it to risky of an item to have in a belt so its cheaper to run an ORCA in a POS with a Compression array.. with slightly less boosts... Again wasted SP... TY for Nerfing it's jump range so I can't move mining fleets around systems quickly anymore either.... TY CCP... TY for also stating that once again you want Nullsec to have Sustainability but have no Clue how to get it's industry capitals working... but hi-sec Gets a niche Battleship hauler Tug.... \o/ You want Null-sec to have this sustainability so show us your plans on how our capitals will actually be worth having trained into. So far I see these days an Orca is cheaper paired with a POS... why waste Two fuels.. Heavy Water + POS fuel For a few extra % in Boosts.. with a Rorqual.. when I can save so much isk just using a Orca paired with a POS... Hell its even quicker and cheaper to warp to belts if I felt ballsy with it.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2014-11-18 07:42:47 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.



I'd say I'm shocked, but with the track record, I'm not.
I'd say I'm upset, but again, this isn't a big surprise.

The only taste this leaves in my mouth is one of disappointment, like a child who's father goes to the pub every week, but never has the time to come watch his band play at school, after repeatedly promising he's going to make it.

Perhaps we are appealing to the wrong people, when we ask for ships to be reworked, instead of de-throned, de-fanged, and forgotten. I mean, of all things, there was development resources to create an ORE Freighter, that doesn't actually have anything to do with industry, but the capital of the ORE fleet, the shining star of the lineup, gets to remain in the corner with a bag over it's head?

/melodrama over, guess I'll check back in a year for updates.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2014-11-19 18:24:19 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.


Greyscale. Seriously. You just nerfed the jump range from 10ly to 5ly, admitted that substantially more use is not related to combat, and then tell us "we don't have balance bandwidth to look at it right now". There might be two people in all of eve that are upset that the drone bonus goes away for the jump range, right now, which is something that you can immediately do. Or if you're worried about the removal of drone bonus, just fix the range and don't touch drone bonuses.

Or, better yet, look at the features and ideas forum every once in a while to see some good ideas on How To Fix The RorqLOL.

You want to centralize production in nullsec? This is a good step in that direction.

Next, re balancing ore anoms.
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
#171 - 2014-11-19 20:00:18 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.


GJ @ ruining skillplan and sub time of a lot of player! like always?
I try to keep for me all the good things i think about you but one day it will go out

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power

Telistra
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#172 - 2014-11-21 00:13:43 UTC
OldWolf69
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#173 - 2014-11-21 10:16:50 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.

Must admit you are somehow a good Troll, sir.LolLolLol
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2014-11-21 17:14:26 UTC
I will never understand the game design decisions that CCP makes. I am trying really hard to have faith in CCP, but it is amiss after years of repetitive, ******, decisions.

1) Nerf Rorquals to be even more kneecapped
2) Spend lots of resources designing a new very narrow use ship for high sec only (seriously what is this ship for)
3) Say that there is not enough bandwidth to revisit the Rorqual at all, despite announcing the need to change the ship nearly a year ago.

The solution to get to CCP's own goal is pretty simple, yet CCP can't see it.

-Centralized production in null requires reliable sources of basic raw materials (ORE). Ore anomalies in null have a horrible distribution of minerals. Rebalance ore anomalies.

-Rorquals are too worthless to actively use outside of a POS/POS Logistics. Fix the rorqual with any meaningful changes (example being the suggestions I linked above), both encouraging additional mining and combat opportunities in null.

-Revisit the changes to jump bridges to enable casual use without allowing groups to travel multiple regions. Example: increasing fuel cost by a very large percentage, making it literally impossible for a full fleet to use jump bridges without serious logistics.

-Once the above changes are made, nerf jump freighter range. This will raise the cost of imports/exports and stimulate local industry in null. This also provides even more choke points for people to control.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#175 - 2014-12-09 17:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
November 17th:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.


November 27th:

CCP Rise: We’re definitely looking at the Rorqual. Right now the Rorqual is a giant paperweight and we’re looking at reworking it so that it becomes something more useful, that people will want to put into belts alongside their mining fleets.
Source


So... not being looked at, but now being looked at. Why you guys gotta play with my heart, CCP?


Mr Omniblivion wrote:


-Revisit the changes to jump bridges to enable casual use without allowing groups to travel multiple regions. Example: increasing fuel cost by a very large percentage, making it literally impossible for a full fleet to use jump bridges without serious logistics.

.


A more elegant solution that wouldn't punish small alliances without having much less of an effect on larger fleet ops would be to have a similar fatigue for jump bridges, that exponentially increased fuel usage, to where a large alliance would have to have multiple freighters of LO parked next to the 3rd jumpbridge, for even a 200 man ishtar gang
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2014-12-11 09:30:54 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
-Revisit the changes to jump bridges to enable casual use without allowing groups to travel multiple regions. Example: increasing fuel cost by a very large percentage, making it literally impossible for a full fleet to use jump bridges without serious logistics.

I was thinking the only thing you might need to do is to limit the pilots to JBs erected by their own alliance. Now, that might turn into a lot of eye of terrors, but that'll still turn into a lot of hassle for everyone involved since they'd have to split their fleets up into a per-alliance fleet, which would split up to take JBs in different system from eachother, only to merge at the end.

I like to think that'll be too much hassle to do, but knowing how poopsocky eveplayers are, chances are they would indeed do this exact thing. But that does beg the question, why not just travel normally while staggering how many went through a gate at a time, thus reducing the hideous tidi, and be safer.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#177 - 2014-12-12 03:07:46 UTC
There are only three things you have to do to make the Rorqual a worthwhile ship.
- Give it the same jump range as jump freighters.
- Remove its drones and drone bonus.
- Change its mining foreman link bonus to one that is always active on the ship, instead of only while the industrial core is active.

This is not hard. This is something you could do in minutes. And it's something that you know needs to happen.
Bogdo Lama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#178 - 2015-01-10 06:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bogdo Lama
CCP Logibro wrote:

We nerfed logistics because moving stuff is bad for eve!




I realize im bit late with this as rhea (actually i meant proteus) is allready knocking on the door. But i havent played too much lately due work stuff and havent used capitals for while.
However let me still state my opinion about this past logistic nerf patch. Why it was needed to nerf ability to move ships and modules from system A to system B?
Lets take example here. If id wanted to move in null past phoebe it would take me 11 carrier jumps to get to location where it used to take 3 carrier jumps pre phoebe.
Also i would need to do atleast 5 carrier jumps trough hostile null which im not doing. Not to mention i would have to do atleast 3 there and back trips because i have alot modules and ships to move. Thats 33 carrier jumps instead of 9 jumps. And i havent even yet talked about fatigue.
So it simply means forget null and stay in lowsec and do not use capitals anymore.

What can i say makes me wanna unsub. Because im bored in lowsec, cant move to null cause its made impossible. Even relocating to another lowsec system is nighmare nowdays. Not much left for me to do...
Terminator 2
Omega Boost
#179 - 2015-01-10 06:59:52 UTC
Bogdo Lama wrote:
CCP Logibro wrote:

We nerfed logistics because moving stuff is bad for eve!




I realize im bit late with this as rhea is allready knocking on the door. But i havent played too much lately due work stuff and havent used capitals for while.
However let me still state my opinion about this past logistic nerf patch. Why it was needed to nerf ability to move ships and modules from system A to system B?
Lets take example here. If id wanted to move in null past phoebe it would take me 11 carrier jumps to get to location where it used to take 3 carrier jumps pre phoebe.
Also i would need to do atleast 5 carrier jumps trough hostile null which im not doing. Not to mention i would have to do atleast 3 there and back trips because i have alot modules and ships to move. Thats 33 carrier jumps instead of 9 jumps. And i havent even yet talked about fatigue.
So it simply means forget null and stay in lowsec and do not use capitals anymore.

What can i say makes me wanna unsub. Because im bored in lowsec, cant move to null cause its made impossible. Even relocating to another lowsec system is nighmare nowdays. Not much left for me to do...


I guess thats why Jumpfreighters and Rorquals received a boost if i'm not mistaken.

For anything else: there is something called teamplay...not you need to move thing from A to B, but your Alliance.
Bogdo Lama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#180 - 2015-01-10 07:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bogdo Lama
Terminator 2 wrote:
Bogdo Lama wrote:
CCP Logibro wrote:

We nerfed logistics because moving stuff is bad for eve!




I realize im bit late with this as rhea is allready knocking on the door. But i havent played too much lately due work stuff and havent used capitals for while.
However let me still state my opinion about this past logistic nerf patch. Why it was needed to nerf ability to move ships and modules from system A to system B?
Lets take example here. If id wanted to move in null past phoebe it would take me 11 carrier jumps to get to location where it used to take 3 carrier jumps pre phoebe.
Also i would need to do atleast 5 carrier jumps trough hostile null which im not doing. Not to mention i would have to do atleast 3 there and back trips because i have alot modules and ships to move. Thats 33 carrier jumps instead of 9 jumps. And i havent even yet talked about fatigue.
So it simply means forget null and stay in lowsec and do not use capitals anymore.

What can i say makes me wanna unsub. Because im bored in lowsec, cant move to null cause its made impossible. Even relocating to another lowsec system is nighmare nowdays. Not much left for me to do...


I guess thats why Jumpfreighters and Rorquals received a boost if i'm not mistaken.

For anything else: there is something called teamplay...not you need to move thing from A to B, but your Alliance.


"Rorqual base jump range reduced from 3.5LY to 2.5LY, for a new maximum range of 5LY with skills."

Thats same range than carrier has. Yes jump freighters. Not intrested buying or training one cause reasons. To be more exact i got 8 billion reasons to not buy one just so i can enjoy destroying alot T2 rigs in different sizes. Yeas you can do courier but still.. Also not going to hand over tens of billions worth of stuff to "some guy" so he can move it for me. Thats not teamplay imho. Thats something else with alot trust involved init.

Anyway was just stating my opinion about phoebe. Thanks for input..