EVE General Discussion

If you disagree, don't try to ad hom the opposition so you can echo chamber and feel smug. Claiming "alts!" to, in your mind, devalue the arguments or people arguing doesn't actually make you right.

Doesn't matter whether I'm right and you're wrong or vice-versa, change is coming and we're all going to have to adapt. Anyway, I'm just poking fun at you writing these amazingly wordy diatribes that basically amount to "you're not playing EVE right" and "punish players for enjoying the game and forgetting to click a button."

I accused you of hypocrisy because in this thread you are advocating for solving a game mechanic by investing in alts.


In a different thread, as I have quoted, you find it unacceptable that alts are a solution to a game mechanic.


E: Added correct quote for this reply.

Did you know that bacon makes your stronger?

Totally misses the point. Many if not most vets are sitting on large isk piles. For instance, I hate pve and don't actively pursue isk gathering, yet im sitting on approximately 6bil liquid isk and about 30 bil in assets, which I just acquired by merely playing in the game. As a result, for a vet pvp in a ship that costs less then 500 mil (at least for me) or so is utterly painless. From an isk point of view, engaging in frig combat (hell in fact any t1 ship up to a bs) is risk free pvp. On the other hand for a newer player, pvp entails considerable risk because the isk loss likely represents a considerable portion of their total net worth. Clone tiers and costs acted as a balance - it imposed an entailed risk on older players thereby equaling the playing field. Over all this change is not a good thing and is just another step towards making pvp in eve painless and risk free.

First of all, words describing generalizations like "anyone" and "ever" are not the perfect choice when you are addressing a community of players as diverse as in EVE. There's more than just a chance that some yuppie looking "bitter" vet dude in Gallentean "I'm sexy and I know it" type of jacket will appear along with something that awfully resembles "Divine Aureole of Forums Knightery" and hit your "anyones" and "evers" with a nerf bat.

Let's for a moment put aside the fact that 9 out of 10 you simply anticipated that and posted this in its current form and place just to provoke posts like these. So lets forget about:
- posting in a General Discussion instead of an appropriate place;
- posting on an NPC corp alt about a topic you want to look like you care about. And no this is not "Ad hominem". This is about caring about a topic so much that you thought it would be better to do it with an NPC alt that has no wight in the community and is easily forgotten instead of using your main character that probably has some history as a dedicated player of this game and thus can attract more people to the cause;
- generally exploiting a seemingly popular trend on GD to bash CCP at every single change they make like it's the end of the world... at least as we know it;

The fact that this thread haven't been locked on Page 2, but instead received blue ribbon is the proof that CCP does listen to feedback no matter the quality of it.

Anyway, let's dissect your post:
Clones and clone costs have always been a part of Eve.
So what. It makes them good? By introducing tradition as your first argument you simply want to be confronted with a counter argument. Why is bringing tradition as your first argument bad for a discussion? Because there were numerous traditions that apparently sometimes even gave benefit at their time in the context of the community that was practicing it, but were ultimately called off because they were just plainly stupid, wasting time or simply bad for the community itself.

They make sense in the scope of the game.
No, they actually don't. They do only because CCP decided that they do and you were told they do when you started to play the game - just like they decided now that they do not make sense any more. If you want a confirmation of the fact that it's not your rational decision about the feature itself that lead to making sense of the feature, but instead CCP's presentation of the feature so far, ask the player who started to play in a game without clones one year after he starts playing and see if he tells you "yeah, having to pay for a clone upgrade when you lose a fight makes perfect sense and it should be implemented".

They aren't a problem for anyone to pay off, ever.
I've already covered "anyone" and "ever" in a general way, so let's cover it in a more direct manner. Take me as an example. Started to play as a solo player not knowing anyone in the game (that's a proper use of the word "anyone" without risking that the generalization might be ruined with an argument of a single person). Played it for a couple of months, made a couple of friends and was nicely leveling up my Raven - literally. You could say that I was one of those "bigger is better" players that skipped small ships except for the fact that I've learned pretty quickly that it's not the case and was deliberately training to be most effective with battlecruisers and battleships because I liked that gameplay more at that point.

That was in Red Moon Rising. So, after a lot of level 4's in a Raven and a couple of fights in Ravens and Drakes I went to nullsec looking for more experiences. Being the oldest character out of all of my in-game friends, I took the task of training what's the most useful for for corp rather for myself, since I already had what I like - BCs and BSs.

Then came joining a big alliance and training for doctrine ships, since Ravens and Drakes were not that popular among the FCs for obvious reasons. It just happened to be that doctrines were switching just barely slower than I could train for them, so my skill queue was always well planned for months ahead. When I got out of all that nullsec stuff, I was already looking at 80+ million of skillpoints and a very expensive clone. I also got bored with flying "big ships" and looked for a new adventure... something that I never had a chance to try... like small ship PvP.

However, since I've never stopped playing and by playing I mean fighting and loosing (as the integral part of fighting), I never had more than I needed to PvP. Some would say that since I have been playing for 7+ years and have about 3 bil in the wallet I'm doing it wrong, but I say I'm doing it right. I keep spending ISK for fun rather than hoarding it and the more ISK I have at my disposal the more fun I'll have in this game. If I have ISK, I'll spend it.. it's that simple. It's not like I have to save ISK for retirement or my children's college fund.

The problem is not about not having enough ISK to pay for a clone. I'd probably always find a way to have it. The problem is that I simply don't feel like it's a rational thing to do if I just jump in a 2 mil ISK frigate and go have some fun while having a 30+ mil ISK default clone. That's not fun, at least not in the long run which makes it unsustainable for a player like me who actually spends all of his ISK with the intention of getting the most fun of it. And I'm not alone. Many of my in-game friends share the same gameplay (have USK = have fun; don't have ISK = get some ISK and then have some fun until you run out of it again).

Can't possibly like the above post enough.

Well, indeed, why not? As I understand it, the DCU is only an active module because of some engine limitation at the time it was implemented. Turning on the DCU's a no-brainer; why, indeed, make the player implement non-decisions?

(And, yes, I'd have D-scan fire every however-many seconds automatically. It's not a meaningful choice; there's no advantage to not D-scanning.)



Same reason they hand out rookie ships for free? Same reason they let a bunch of amoral homicidal maniacs run around space even though CONCORD could squash them all flat in an afternoon? When the universe's internal logic and gameplay conflict, gameplay wins.

whats wrong with high sp characters participating in anything?

you realize damage application does not scale with ship size, in fact it gets worse? and the distances in common situations such as gate spawn and webs and points are within 15 km. good luck brawling in a 15 km radius with large guns.