These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

More exploration in exploration

Author
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1 - 2014-11-15 16:09:19 UTC
New sleepers sites in k-space bring some new opportunities to exploration.

So, to the point:
1) hackable structures (warpagates, siloses, stockyards, habitats etc.)
2) more than one "pocket"
3) structures that changes condition on grid and beyond:
- defensive structure that can be switch off (maybe for some time) like turrets, shields, drone bunkers etc.
- hackable beacon that can remove sig from ship scanners
- hackable entry warpgate to "lock" pocket for some time
- structure with possibilty to suck gas cloud on site to reveal hidden content (like cans or wrecks, hackable ofc)
4) dangers:
- gas clouds
- bobby traped structure that will blow within proximity
- alarms (on datas) with rats incoming

So we land on pocket. There are 10 structures with possible loot. After scanning 3 of them have something inside. One is guarded by turrets, the other 2 can be hacked directly but they are in some dangerous gas clouds. There are site beacon near that destroyed base but in may be traped. Also there's a warpgate to another pocket. Decisions decisions.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#2 - 2014-11-15 16:40:11 UTC
New exploration content is always nice, but first thing that NEEDS to happen, is cosmic signatures have to stop showing up on the discovery scanner when you enter the system.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-11-15 16:47:34 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
New exploration content is always nice, but first thing that NEEDS to happen, is cosmic signatures have to stop showing up on the discovery scanner when you enter the system.

Why exactly? Ships with a probe launcher to "see" them would find them anyway and ships without out one already can't find them.

As a hobbyist explorer I am honestly not sure what is wrong with the current discovery scanner mechanics.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#4 - 2014-11-15 18:11:19 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
New exploration content is always nice, but first thing that NEEDS to happen, is cosmic signatures have to stop showing up on the discovery scanner when you enter the system.

In what way? Like old system? Deploying deep scan probe to scan whole system? It would change nothing. Just more clicks, same effect.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#5 - 2014-11-16 09:13:17 UTC
Chewed the idea of signatures not showing on system scanner and...
- looking for signatures sonar style: one probe with smaller range to find signature, current probes to pinpoint location (this idea has a flaw - big system like 50 AU would be tedious to scan)
- remove sigantures from scanner and move information about them on F10 map level (intel style, like jumps/h etc. this i like better because you don't go blindly and scan system after system)
but...
data and relics are not only signatures that system scanner is showing. This would affect combat exploration (more like bonuty hunting) as well.
I would rather put wormholes to anomalies (w-dwellers could use some targets to shoot, conflict driver), and ghost sites to signatures.
Then scale probing difficulty:
- easiest - combat signatures
- data/relics
- most difficulty - ghost sites (with options to actually fight with rats on grid)

Layers of exploration:
I - cluster map and choosing route/systems to scan, gathering intel (every explorer first step to take)
II - probing system to find sites
III - exploring site (in our case cargo scanning)

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-11-19 11:52:51 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
New exploration content is always nice, but first thing that NEEDS to happen, is cosmic signatures have to stop showing up on the discovery scanner when you enter the system.

I agree with this.

Exploration is the act of searching to find something that's unknown. The Sensor Sweep mechanic negates that aspect of exploration. The Sensor Sweep is basically a sign saying 'Look Here For Loot'. Exploration use to be specialized and would reward those with patience and persistence, now it's been dumbed down into a race for 'Instant Gratification'.


DMC
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2014-11-19 11:55:31 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

- hackable beacon that can remove sig from ship scanners
- hackable entry warpgate to "lock" pocket for some time




no
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#8 - 2014-11-19 13:11:37 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no

Ok. You don't like it because of what? Hard to discuss with two letter wordWhat?
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Exploration is the act of searching to find something that's unknown. The Sensor Sweep mechanic negates that aspect of exploration. The Sensor Sweep is basically a sign saying 'Look Here For Loot'. Exploration use to be specialized and would reward those with patience and persistence, now it's been dumbed down into a race for 'Instant Gratification'.

How about moving signatures (without showing on scanner) to certain parts of space:
- datas to around 2 AU from suns (energy);
- relics to outer planets and beyond;
- combat sites on orbits or near planets and moons;
- wormholes - everywhere.

Then one "system scanner probe" to find signature (let's say 2AU wide), and current probes to pinpoint location.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Elena Morin'staal
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-11-19 15:41:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

- hackable beacon that can remove sig from ship scanners
- hackable entry warpgate to "lock" pocket for some time




no



His answer is terrible but he's not wrong. Anything that prevents another player from affecting you is bad and should not exist.

I'm sure we'd all love to lock out those rare high-sec 5/10's so no one could steal the loot at the end - but thats not what eve is about.

As for removing the sensor sweep, you won't change anything. Experienced players will drop a DSP and see it all anyway, all you do is add pointless clicks.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#10 - 2014-11-19 18:54:55 UTC
Elena Morin'staal wrote:
I'm sure we'd all love to lock out those rare high-sec 5/10's so no one could steal the loot at the end - but thats not what eve is about.

I was thinking about data/relics not combat sites. It would be a form of non combat pvp at those sites. Just an option for those who want to do it.
Elena Morin'staal wrote:
As for removing the sensor sweep, you won't change anything. Experienced players will drop a DSP and see it all anyway, all you do is add pointless clicks.

DSP probes are not avaiable since odyssey. It wouldn't be pointless because you would search for sites actively (maybe with 200% scanning time). So probing at two levels: I finding signature (with very limited AU option), II pinpointing signature.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-11-21 00:01:04 UTC
I like your ideas of adding more content to exploration.

As long as CCP removes Cosmic Signatures from showing in the Sensor Sweep I'm fine with your proposal.

And no I don't want DSP's put back into the game. As I said before, Exploration is the act of searching to find something that's unknown.


DMC
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2014-11-21 01:45:03 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

DSP probes are not avaiable since odyssey. It wouldn't be pointless because you would search for sites actively (maybe with 200% scanning time). So probing at two levels: I finding signature (with very limited AU option), II pinpointing signature.

DSP probes were specifically removed because CCP felt they were a bad mechanic forcing any probing players to hit the probe interface in every single system just to see if there were even sigs in that system.
And replaced with the sensor sweep.

If they removed the sensor sweep they would not replace it with an even more tedious mechanic that requires you to scan multiple times just to see if there are any sigs in system, before you can even start to narrow it down.

If the icons were half the size, I'd be perfectly happy, the icons are currently a bit large in space being significantly larger than all the normal overview icons.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#13 - 2014-11-21 09:19:20 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

DSP probes are not avaiable since odyssey. It wouldn't be pointless because you would search for sites actively (maybe with 200% scanning time). So probing at two levels: I finding signature (with very limited AU option), II pinpointing signature.

DSP probes were specifically removed because CCP felt they were a bad mechanic forcing any probing players to hit the probe interface in every single system just to see if there were even sigs in that system.
And replaced with the sensor sweep.

If they removed the sensor sweep they would not replace it with an even more tedious mechanic that requires you to scan multiple times just to see if there are any sigs in system, before you can even start to narrow it down.

If the icons were half the size, I'd be perfectly happy, the icons are currently a bit large in space being significantly larger than all the normal overview icons.

The DSP were bad because the required astrometrics 5 as well as an expanded probe launcher which limited there use.

One of the reasons for the discovery scanner was to show what cosmic anomalies were in the system, which is a good thing, but showing all the cosmic signatures that are in the system also has made exploration far to simple of a endeavor and the market for the good reflects this.

Which is why I still say to remove cosmic signatures form the discovery scanner readout and leave finding those to probes. It will make players explore systems again.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.