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@ CCP, why do you have rules that you refuse to enforce?
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#161 - 2011-12-15 00:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I got a warning within about 5 minutes of flipping baiters cans in a nub system when I was trying to put a stop to some bads picking on noobs. These cowards refused to fight me and instead tried to petition me as baiting noobs myself. I got it all sorted out quickly and havent seen those guys about for some time. I guess they got butthurt that they couldn't get easy kills anymore and quit.

And no, I wasn't talking about noob systems in my previous post.



This is an example of griefing - using the petition system to make false charges.

People who do that should be banned from the game so hard their computer should have boot.ini issues.




Anything bad is griefing?




As much as anything sexy is perverted.



The difference between being kinky or perverted, is whether you use a feather or the whole chicken.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Freezehunter
#162 - 2011-12-15 00:41:29 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
...so look forwards to a wardec or suicide gank in the new year thanks to your actions as a horrible person.



I fully support this cause and/or service, and hereby pledge 100 Thrashers to your campaign.


Good luck with that!

Meanwhile I'll be in SWTOR for the next month starting when I finally get my new GPU.

Most of the reason why I am so ******* pissed and rage-y these days is that my GPU burned out and the retards at the post office seem to take 2 ******* weeks to bring me the new one I ordered on the day my old one burned.

I tend to spaz out at everyone when I am pissed, including my cat and my wife.

Sorry... >.>

I WANT MY 6990 NAOW.



Drive to best buy and buy another one?


Nah, already charged my credit card 700 dollars for this one, I'll just wait until they bring it to my door now, too much hassle to cancel the order and BLAAAAGH...

Sucks man...

Guess that's what I get for ordering from fkin' Amazon...

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#163 - 2011-12-15 00:44:43 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:

Nah, already charged my credit card 700 dollars for this one, I'll just wait until they bring it to my door now, too much hassle to cancel the order and BLAAAAGH...

Sucks man...

Guess that's what I get for ordering from fkin' Amazon...



700 bucks on a GPU.. to play EvE? Dude I can play this game on my iPhone.. what the hell is wrong with you?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#164 - 2011-12-15 00:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Okay, I'm going to make this as clear and unambiguous as I can. If you don't understand it, Kobol, that's your probem.

Intentionally killing someone with the sole intent that he must log off to get away from you -- whether you do it once or a dozen tmes or a hundred times-- is griefing. The Terms of Service are very specific: a player may not interfere with another person's enjoyment of the game.

Being forced to stop playing to escape relentless harassment certainly qualifies as 'interference'.


Erm... Astrid, there is a section that pertains to griefing, but that isn't it. The quote you keep referring to again in full.

Quote:
You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.


This refers to making the chat environment distasteful due to profanity or spam, or making the game difficult to play by lag creating tactics. It has absolutely nothing to do with blowing each other up in any way, shape or form.

Context is important. Pay particular note also of the last 5 words in the first sentence:

"in accordance with it's rules"

It then goes on to list things that are blatantly against the rules. Notice that killing someone, whether once or repeatedly, is nowhere on the list... nor is anything remotely similar in nature... as killing someone is in full accordance with the rules. In fact, the whole game encourages it.

Edit: Using your quote in the manner you describe I could petition you because your posts are keeping me from enjoying the game/web site. Which I'm sure you agree is well beyond the intentions of the section quoted.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Freezehunter
#165 - 2011-12-15 00:50:19 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Nah, already charged my credit card 700 dollars for this one, I'll just wait until they bring it to my door now, too much hassle to cancel the order and BLAAAAGH...

Sucks man...

Guess that's what I get for ordering from fkin' Amazon...



700 bucks on a GPU.. to play EvE? Dude I can play this game on my iPhone.. what the hell is wrong with you?


I don't only play Eve, obviously...

Gaming is my main hobby, followed by guitar, drums, ATV riding, motorbike riding, swimming and going to pubs.

I spend a metric **** ton of money on entertainment, as I have ADHD and OCD and I am very ******* hard to keep entertained / non-bored, and when I get bored, all hell breaks loose because I turn into a grumpy ******* that snaps and yells at everyone for basically no reason.

Sucks to be me.

I was thinking of taking skydiving lessons, or getting a pilot license, think that would be fun?

Anyone here sky dives or flies planes or gliders?

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Ai Shun
#166 - 2011-12-15 00:55:57 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Most of the reason why I am so ******* pissed and rage-y these days is that my GPU burned out and the retards at the post office seem to take 2 ******* weeks to bring me the new one I ordered on the day my old one burned.

I tend to spaz out at everyone when I am pissed, including my cat and my wife.


Your poor wife.
Freezehunter
#167 - 2011-12-15 00:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Ai Shun wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Most of the reason why I am so ******* pissed and rage-y these days is that my GPU burned out and the retards at the post office seem to take 2 ******* weeks to bring me the new one I ordered on the day my old one burned.

I tend to spaz out at everyone when I am pissed, including my cat and my wife.


Your poor wife.


Actually, I usually try to keep spazzing out at her to a minimum.

I compensate by doing other stuff, too...

But come on, it's not like I am the only one that gets grumpy once in a while, gimme' a break here...

Anyway, that's enough for tonight, see ya' doodz tomorrow, perhaps...

Sorry for being an unbearable spaz assnuts over the last few days...

'Nite! o7

P.s: That Ts 3 offer still stands.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Ai Shun
#168 - 2011-12-15 01:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ai Shun
Freezehunter wrote:
But come on, it's not like I am the only one that gets grumpy once in a while, gimme' a break here...


The excuse of a natural bully? You don't get a break. The behavior you admit to is deplorable.

Freezehunter wrote:
I tend to spaz out at everyone when I am pissed, including my cat and my wife.


Just because you are in a bad mood why should your defenceless cat and poor wife suffer the consequences? And why? Because you can't play a ******* video game?

Priorities. Your ones are ****** up.

You're just a ******* toolbag.
Freezehunter
#169 - 2011-12-15 01:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Ai Shun wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
But come on, it's not like I am the only one that gets grumpy once in a while, gimme' a break here...


The excuse of a natural bully? You don't get a break. The behavior you admit to is deplorable.

Freezehunter wrote:
I tend to spaz out at everyone when I am pissed, including my cat and my wife.


Just because you are in a bad mood why should your defenceless cat and poor wife suffer the consequences? And why? Because you can't play a ******* video game?

Priorities. Your ones are ****** up.

You're just a ******* toolbag.


Bah, my damn thing beeped and I was just about to go to bed...

You don't know me and you can't make those assumptions.

I can't count how many people made assumptions like that about me initially and felt like total douches and apologized when they got to know me better...

For example, I met my wife 2 years ago, while I was trolling trade chat in WoW.
She liked my trolling so much and found it so funny, and loved how I stirred up a **** storm every time I posted some controversial topic so much that she contacted me, we got in touch, and the rest, as they say, is history...
Weird thing is, I was using 2 characters to troll, and she had blocked 1 of them because it pissed her off so much one day, that she had a huge argument and got angry. XD
We still laugh about that today.

Not every day that a man moves 3000 miles just to be with someone, you know...

And before you call me a wowfag, I quit that disaster of a game and deleted all my characters about 5 months ago, the only reason I played it in the first place was because of the amazing trolling potential it has.

Role players on my server hated my guts XD.

Good times.

So yes, please stop making assumptions before you know me. :)

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Ai Shun
#170 - 2011-12-15 01:29:23 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
You don't know me and you can't make those assumptions.


Good point. All I have to go on is what YOU said. I will remind you:

Freezehunter wrote:
I tend to spaz out at everyone when I am pissed, including my cat and my wife.


Why?

Freezehunter wrote:
Most of the reason why I am so ******* pissed and rage-y these days is that my GPU burned out and the retards at the post office seem to take 2 ******* weeks to bring me the new one I ordered on the day my old one burned.


Your own words, mate. As to getting to know you? No thank you. The kind of person that takes their temper out on their family and pets is not the kind of person I want to know or associate with.
Taiwanistan
#171 - 2011-12-15 02:23:23 UTC
hey angry man, fedex $30 2nd day shipping, use it so you don't get a stroke
and you shoulda got the 590 instead

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#172 - 2011-12-15 02:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
I don't only play Eve, obviously...

Gaming is my main hobby, followed by guitar, drums, ATV riding, motorbike riding, swimming and going to pubs.

I spend a metric **** ton of money on entertainment, as I have ADHD and OCD and I am very ******* hard to keep entertained / non-bored, and when I get bored, all hell breaks loose because I turn into a grumpy ******* that snaps and yells at everyone for basically no reason.

Sucks to be me.

I was thinking of taking skydiving lessons, or getting a pilot license, think that would be fun?


I heartily approve of your prospective choices, and find them entirely appropriate.

Personally my hobbies (outside of this game) tend to be a bit more sedentary in nature, and center around reading classic literature dealing with the arts and sciences.

In fact, I suddenly feel inspired to brush up on my Darwin.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#173 - 2011-12-15 02:52:44 UTC
This thread is griefing.

Also, petitioning the OP and all in agreement with him for repeatedly griefing me with their ideas.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#174 - 2011-12-15 02:59:24 UTC
Griefing with ideas...... hmmmmmm Twisted


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jarod Leercap
On Three 125
#175 - 2011-12-15 03:03:08 UTC
I'd read between the lines and paraphrase CCP's policy on griefing as follows:

"Grieifing (killing someone for a reason other than an accepted in-game goal) is not allowed. Proven instances of griefing will result in discipline."

The difficulty here is that most griefing can be explained away by citing potential in-game goals, so proving intent (necessary for the definition above) is generally next to impossible.

I can't say I'm always thrilled about that, but I accept it. In some situations it's the only way to make the game work as the sandbox it is.

I must confess that I do get riled up with the "use a PVP fit in a misson" advise for a newbie/solo player/small corp. PVP fits are going to perform poorly in a mission (and this coming from someone who omni-tanks his mission fits), and having aggro gives an aggressor the advantage whether he or she is in a PVP fit or not. Pair that with the ease of docking rather than engaging if your quarry comes out for a fight, and the PVP fit suggestion doesn't hold much water.

The bottom line is that you're going to experience an economic loss one way or the other until your hunter decides to move on for his or her own reasons. If you have sufficient spite and resources, you might be able to snag a hunter a time or two, but that probably won't be what sends him or her packing.

I'd love it if there were mechanics to change the balance situation here a bit, but must confess that I've not thought them up. In the mean time, that's the score as I see it.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#176 - 2011-12-15 03:07:30 UTC
Cipher Jones is griefing all of us by continually creating these horrible threads and then abandoning them when he gets his ass handed to him by people using logic and common sense.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#177 - 2011-12-15 03:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jarod Leercap wrote:
I'd read between the lines and paraphrase CCP's policy on griefing as follows:

"Grieifing (killing someone for a reason other than an accepted in-game goal) is not allowed. Proven instances of griefing will result in discipline."

The difficulty here is that most griefing can be explained away by citing potential in-game goals, so proving intent (necessary for the definition above) is generally next to impossible.

I can't say I'm always thrilled about that, but I accept it. In some situations it's the only way to make the game work as the sandbox it is.

I must confess that I do get riled up with the "use a PVP fit in a misson" advise for a newbie/solo player/small corp. PVP fits are going to perform poorly in a mission (and this coming from someone who omni-tanks his mission fits), and having aggro gives an aggressor the advantage whether he or she is in a PVP fit or not. Pair that with the ease of docking rather than engaging if your quarry comes out for a fight, and the PVP fit suggestion doesn't hold much water.

The bottom line is that you're going to experience an economic loss one way or the other until your hunter decides to move on for his or her own reasons. If you have sufficient spite and resources, you might be able to snag a hunter a time or two, but that probably won't be what sends him or her packing.

I'd love it if there were mechanics to change the balance situation here a bit, but must confess that I've not thought them up. In the mean time, that's the score as I see it.



Just having a PVP fit alone won't cut it. You need a plan, and you need to lure him to your chosen (prepared) battlefield.

You do not always have to run level 4's.

Nor do you have to run your missions alone, or with a (visible) companion or two.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#178 - 2011-12-15 05:08:24 UTC
Reasons this is a terrible thread in ascending order:

5. OP asks why rule is not being enforced, cannot supply a single example of rule not being enforced
4. OP refuses to dicuss interpretation of the rule, while applying his own interpretation to the rule
3. Various people claim greifing is happening without being able to supply a single example
2. At least one person asserts that they have the right to undisturbed play in a PvP sandbox

and last but not least

1. It got to 9 frickin' pages despite all the above. I mean, when was the last time OP even posted?


Also:

Freezehunter wrote:

I recently had this douchebag that war decced every single corporation I joined, just so that he could catch me doing missions in my Machariel or Nightmare and kill me, because apparently someone that I pissed off in Jita was paying him to do it.
How can you call it griefing when you know he was doing it for in-game profit? That does not fit a generic definition of griefing, and specifically violates CCP's definition.


Carebears, lol...

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#179 - 2011-12-15 07:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Doc Fury wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I got a warning within about 5 minutes of flipping baiters cans in a nub system when I was trying to put a stop to some bads picking on noobs. These cowards refused to fight me and instead tried to petition me as baiting noobs myself. I got it all sorted out quickly and havent seen those guys about for some time. I guess they got butthurt that they couldn't get easy kills anymore and quit.

And no, I wasn't talking about noob systems in my previous post.



This is an example of griefing - using the petition system to make false charges.

People who do that should be banned from the game so hard their computer should have boot.ini issues.




Anything bad is griefing?




As much as anything sexy is perverted.



The difference between being kinky or perverted, is whether you use a feather or the whole chicken.




You win.


I think good example of griefing would be to ransom someone not for ISK, but to make them sing Aqua's "Barbie Girl" in vent and then put it on youtube.

Or something like that.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Prince Kobol
#180 - 2011-12-15 08:06:42 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Okay, I'm going to make this as clear and unambiguous as I can. If you don't understand it, Kobol, that's your probem.

Intentionally killing someone with the sole intent that he must log off to get away from you -- whether you do it once or a dozen tmes or a hundred times-- is griefing. The Terms of Service are very specific: a player may not interfere with another person's enjoyment of the game.

Being forced to stop playing to escape relentless harassment certainly qualifies as 'interference'.



Yet again I will point out that nowhere in the EULA does is specifically state that repeating killing somebody is classed as griefing.

Your have interpreted the EULA to mean this, you , not me, not CCP, just you.

My own personal interpretation is that if I choose to, I can hunt you down repeatedly so long as I do not say anything untoward in chat.

Why, because the mechanics of the game allow me to do this and they allow you to fight back if you chose to.

If you wanted to use an example of what might be consider griefing, something along the lines of 5 players all in NPC corps actively hunting 1 player continuously without mercy for a period of days.

In this case the person would not be able to war dec his targets or effectively fight back do to the numbers he is facing.

However when its 1 v 1, I can not think of any example that it would be considered griefing due to the fact that you can fight back.