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New Wormhole Class

Author
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#1 - 2014-11-12 07:44:20 UTC
So for those who, like me, like to listen to a podcast on their way to work before getting their morning coffee might have heard Fozzie tease with some information on the new Crossing Zebra episode (50:00 and onwards) .

Thera will be among 101! new wormholes added.

So that basicly puts it on level with adding another class to wormholespace. Which sounds very much like some ideas floating around on this subforum earlier.

I would suggest that this might have a slightly bigger impact than a single system that we could view as part of 0.0 really.
So in waiting for the upcoming devblog, what is your immidiate reaction?
Luwc
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#2 - 2014-11-12 09:01:27 UTC
idc aslong as I dont have scrubs flooding my c5.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-11-12 14:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
As a friend recently said.

Stations in wormholes? No Thanks.

I would personally prefer they fix POS's in total rather than go off on some test of Spacestations in multi 100 au gateless systems. Since they are doing it anyway...

Dunno. I see Offgrid boosters being exceedingly annoying and maybe virtually unprobable (heck of alot to probe down to catch one guy). I would see this as a viable option if the following is addressed.

1) Boosts were changed to be "Ongrid" because probing a offgrid booster in a 500+ AU piece of space will be the biggest pain in the ass on the planet.

2) Docking had "fees" (your going to play station games, its going to cost you). I would make it based off time. You dock first time, costs maybe 10,000 isk, undock and redock within 1 hour, costs you 1 million isk. Have the redock compound. You undock and redock 100 times in 1 hour, could potentially cost you a billion isk as they continue to escalate cost because you redock so often in a short timespan. As time expires, so does the fee. You undock and dock once an hour, shouldn't cost you much. You dock and undock 100's of times in a 1 hour timespan, proceed to go broke.

3) At least a few of these holes (heck lets say at least 50% of these new wormholes) had nothing but w-space statics and there was NO k-space Static and wandering hole (I'd rather a deeper wormhole space similar to how C4's function vs easy access holes).

4) The amount of planets would have to be significant for people to plant PoCo's.

5) No jump clones from/to this space (because this will be pretty moronic for wormhole space). I would perfer a clone swap option (swap your implant clone for a clean one). Something like this should be more of a pos mod but since those don't exist yet, nor can pos's be anchored here, the station should offer it. We keep talking about occupancy sov, lets have occupancy wormhole. You live there, not jump there whenever someone "pings".

Yaay!!!!

Steven Hackett
Ehefkae
#4 - 2014-11-12 15:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
I don't see these new systems as part of w-space since there havn't been any reveals saying the systems will be included in the w-space static system.

What I see this being?
A new kind of system that has nothing to do with w-space and @ worst, takes people away from w-space or keeps K-space people from going into w-space because they can get a lot of the bonuses of w-space in these new systems.


Imo. CCP is taking a huge stinking dump on w-space with what is released so far.
I hope Im wrong on this part though, but experience with Fozzie makes me very hessitant about these new systems.
MooMooDachshundCow
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-11-12 15:38:07 UTC
Early reports indicate that this system will be more akin to NPC null w/o gates and local. It's not going to be a WH system in the true sense for a couple reasons:
1. Stations rather than POS
2. No W-space static
3. System is named


So, let's not pretend that these 100+ new systems are real extensions of WH space, because there's nothing to indicate that they are. In fact, I agree with Mr. Hackett, this is likely to reduce people moving in WH space due to it being a middle-ground that many may prefer.

@Phoenix: Good luck with your ideas. They seem well-intentioned, but unlikely. Especially docking fatigue - not gonna happen, but we'll see.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Michal Swiostek
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
#6 - 2014-11-12 15:48:04 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Early reports indicate that this system will be more akin to NPC null w/o gates and local. It's not going to be a WH system in the true sense for a couple reasons:
1. Stations rather than POS
2. No W-space static
3. System is named


So, let's not pretend that these 100+ new systems are real extensions of WH space, because there's nothing to indicate that they are. In fact, I agree with Mr. Hackett, this is likely to reduce people moving in WH space due to it being a middle-ground that many may prefer.

@Phoenix: Good luck with your ideas. They seem well-intentioned, but unlikely. Especially docking fatigue - not gonna happen, but we'll see.


c1 and c3 got no W space static they are W space arent they?
Every system is named, what is the name of your J?

The systems don't have static or player build gates = W space - simples.
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-11-12 15:48:24 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Early reports indicate that this system will be more akin to NPC null w/o gates and local. It's not going to be a WH system in the true sense for a couple reasons:
1. Stations rather than POS
2. No W-space static
3. System is named


So, let's not pretend that these 100+ new systems are real extensions of WH space, because there's nothing to indicate that they are. In fact, I agree with Mr. Hackett, this is likely to reduce people moving in WH space due to it being a middle-ground that many may prefer.

@Phoenix: Good luck with your ideas. They seem well-intentioned, but unlikely. Especially docking fatigue - not gonna happen, but we'll see.



The docking fatigue is a shot in the dark but to specifically address the issue of station games. These are npc stations. Why would they allow us to dock for free.

As much as people expect this to be like Jita, I don't want it to be exactly like Jita.

Bots spamming local for gambling websites, Isk doubling services and scam contracts.

500,000 hp boosted bait proteus orbiting the undock randomly shooting people, then deaggressing and docking. With 10 to 20 logi waiting. Mega tanked boosters sitting on the undock boosting the gang 400 Au away.

The basic Jita bullsh-t. Least bubbles won't be that big of an issue.

Yaay!!!!

Michal Swiostek
Bean-shidh
The Nameless Alliance
#8 - 2014-11-12 15:51:09 UTC
Steven Hackett wrote:
I don't see these new systems as part of w-space since there havn't been any reveals saying the systems will be included in the w-space static system.

What I see this being?
A new kind of system that has nothing to do with w-space and @ worst, takes people away from w-space or keeps K-space people from going into w-space because they can get a lot of the bonuses of w-space in these new systems.


Imo. CCP is taking a huge stinking dump on w-space with what is released so far.
I hope Im wrong on this part though, but experience with Fozzie makes me very hessitant about these new systems.



Thats a good point, would be nice if they add statics from existing holes to that group oh WHs (at least to some of them).
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-11-12 15:52:22 UTC
If Wspace is the nullsec equivalent. Then this new space is essentially the low sec of Wspace.

Basically the issue of it is that it needs a name. It ain't wspace (no j number) but it is Wspace (named). Just like nullsec is kspace, but we call it nullsec.

This could be as simple as clarifying the name of what it is.

Yaay!!!!

King Fu Hostile
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-11-12 16:09:05 UTC
Can't help but think how much better this would have been if it only had w-space connections, and never any directly to k-space.

Steven Hackett
Ehefkae
#11 - 2014-11-12 16:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
Michal Swiostek wrote:

c1 and c3 got no W space static they are W space arent they?

The systems don't have static or player build gates = W space - simples.

C1 and C3 systems are still part of the w-space static system though, as in other wormholes have static connections to C1 and C3 and C1+3 is connected to the rest of w-space trough these.

There are no(revealed atm.) static connections between any part of w-space and the new space. As of current reveals, Highsec is more connected to W-space than the new space is.

And in your own "simple" argumentation. The systems have stations, not POSs = Not W-space (Obv. this argumentation is just as flawed as yours ;))

In any case these new systems works as a middle-ground between NS and W-space where people don't loose their assets if they leave game or gets thrown out etc. So it is only logical that this new area of space will lead to less people in w-space unless CCP got an ace up their sleve.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#12 - 2014-11-12 16:23:37 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Can't help but think how much better this would have been if it only had w-space connections, and never any directly to k-space.


Then the null babies would cry.
I mean, then the large and powerful null src entities would lodge complaints with their pocket-csm.

I'm not sure what this new space is really supposed to accomplish, but I can't help but feel like wormholes are being "replaced" in a way. Maybe ccp will allow sov in this new quasi-wh and goons will settle in and marmite will park alts on the gates, errr... wormholes.
I'm mostly being a smartass here, but I really, really don't see what CCP is trying to accomplish.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#13 - 2014-11-12 16:24:07 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Can't help but think how much better this would have been if it only had w-space connections, and never any directly to k-space.



This is true for every system in EVE though.
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-11-12 16:43:53 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Can't help but think how much better this would have been if it only had w-space connections, and never any directly to k-space.


Then the null babies would cry.
I mean, then the large and powerful null src entities would lodge complaints with their pocket-csm.

I'm not sure what this new space is really supposed to accomplish, but I can't help but feel like wormholes are being "replaced" in a way. Maybe ccp will allow sov in this new quasi-wh and goons will settle in and marmite will park alts on the gates, errr... wormholes.
I'm mostly being a smartass here, but I really, really don't see what CCP is trying to accomplish.



Null is not particularly interested in this. No cyno, no black ops, no bridging, no control, no local, no Intel, no docking lockout, no capitals, no jump freighters, no bubbles, can't lock it down.

They would be interested in this because?

This is solely for corporations and hunters who don't want to deal with lossec gate gun, doc mechanics, fighters, pos and doc sieging, security status, gate camps, and who want to be nomadic but don't want to upend their entire crew every week to move.

This is in its purest form, a subcap system.

You can really delve into it once it's on sisi

Yaay!!!!

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#15 - 2014-11-12 17:32:38 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
As a friend recently said.

2) Docking had "fees" (your going to play station games, its going to cost you). I would make it based off time. You dock first time, costs maybe 10,000 isk, undock and redock within 1 hour, costs you 1 million isk. Have the redock compound. You undock and redock 100 times in 1 hour, could potentially cost you a billion isk as they continue to escalate cost because you redock so often in a short timespan. As time expires, so does the fee. You undock and dock once an hour, shouldn't cost you much. You dock and undock 100's of times in a 1 hour timespan, proceed to go broke.


Docking fatigue sounds awful complicated. Why not just equip the station with some amazing dread-blap style station guns which salvo misbehavior? I cant imagine docking games being an issue in that context and the station would still fulfill the role of a place to come and go from.
Ilaister
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-11-12 17:33:25 UTC
Think people really need to start relaxing and learning to love the bomb here.

With the new release schedule 'It's ready? Ship it - Your thematically related and slightly more complex project has succumbed to gremlins? Hold it til next month' we have to accept that there are things being put in that don't always make complete sense yet.

e.g. - Low mass unkillable WHs -> D3's.

CCP are listening, and iterating extremely frequently. And for some reason w-space is getting all kinds of attention atm (not that we don't deserve it, we are awesome).

Let's chill, be grateful some of our friends in Iceland still know what a WH is, and provide as much reasoned feedback as we can.

That is - try the content & perhaps then even listen to others' learned opinions before sperging negativity everywhere.
Ilaister
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-11-12 17:39:10 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
As a friend recently said.

2) Docking had "fees" (your going to play station games, its going to cost you). I would make it based off time. You dock first time, costs maybe 10,000 isk, undock and redock within 1 hour, costs you 1 million isk. Have the redock compound. You undock and redock 100 times in 1 hour, could potentially cost you a billion isk as they continue to escalate cost because you redock so often in a short timespan. As time expires, so does the fee. You undock and dock once an hour, shouldn't cost you much. You dock and undock 100's of times in a 1 hour timespan, proceed to go broke.


Docking fatigue sounds awful complicated. Why not just equip the station with some amazing dread-blap style station guns which salvo misbehavior? I cant imagine docking games being an issue in that context and the station would still fulfill the role of a place to come and go from.


Hm... Blap guns good - maybe some kind of blacklist system even better? Entities with high standing/frequent contact with Thera NPC residents or just length of stay can add weight to some kind of petition for preventing future docks. Would be cool to have a way to 'run people out of town' cos nobody likes em anymore.

Prolly too abusable I guess, easiest way would be to make them all kickouts and make sure the station model geometry prevents people barnacling up in crevices so you can't bump them off.
350125GO
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#18 - 2014-11-12 19:22:05 UTC
What hasn't been released yet is the availability of manufacturing slots in these stations. If they have all the amenities of K-space stations then this looks like a bear playground. It makes some sense too with the introduction of D3's and the new anoms dropping sleeper loot, I could see these becoming big manufacturing hubs for w-space. Would be nice to stop having to find an entrance close to Jita or Amarr.

With the force projection changes, which greatly expanded the size of the universe again, it seems odd that they would add more systems, unless there's also a plan to make them more connected. The frequency of frig holes and wandering holes being increased seem to make sense as being connected to this expansion of space.

More systems, and more wandering connections. Does that make a bigger sandbox or a smaller one?

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.

calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#19 - 2014-11-12 19:42:12 UTC
Doubt they would make them completely cut of frlm rest of wspace. I expect a lot of random wormholes connecting to these systems. Maybe a 2nd static to c6 even :P
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-11-12 21:18:19 UTC
If these also have stations then I am totally out. Stations in WHs are a terrible idea, always have been, always will be.
If theyre just new systems with new effects/sites ect then sure, why not.

There is no Bob.

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