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Crime & Punishment

 
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CODE. Suicide Ganking is out of hand

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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#21 - 2014-11-12 14:32:54 UTC
Freighters absolutely do go afk in belts. They have been doing so ever since they got the ability to take from containers.
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
#22 - 2014-11-12 14:59:59 UTC
Kajurei Delainen wrote:
Just through observation, CODE. continued to slaughter barges. With the varying number of kills, it is clear that these victims were not afkers, freighters don't go afk at belts, they were all people just paying CCP to play the game.

Whole sale destruction like this isn't good for business. CCP is trying to get more people to play a game, and when people find out that they are paying money to get everything stolen from them in hi-sec space, they take their subscription money and go play a different game.

Allowing this type of game play to continue is Bad for Business; for CCP and for our player base.

Driving away paying customers is self-destructive.

I'll try to explain something for you.
There are two types of pilots that code kills.

Dumbasses.
and
People who dont know any better.

Lets now take a look at each of these types of pilots.
Dumbasses: Unfortunately the dumbasses of new eden have demonstrated consistently that they have zero inclination to improvise adapt or overcome. In almost all but the rarest of cases they will continue to be dumbasses, and they will wonder why code keeps happening to them.

People who dont know any better: These pilots have a choice to make when code happens to them. They get to choose the type of transformation they are about to make. They will either transform into People who now know better, or they will transform into the previously discussed catagory of dumbasses.

People who now know better will make appropriate choices, improvise, adapt and overcome.
The dumbasses will probably just remain dumbasses and in rare cases they buy permits that allow them to pursue they're dumbass lifestyle in peace.
I hope this cleared things up for you

Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2014-11-12 15:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kajurei Delainen wrote:
Just through observation, CODE. continued to slaughter barges.
And?

Quote:
With the varying number of kills, it is clear that these victims were not afkers, freighters don't go afk at belts, they were all people just paying CCP to play the game.
Who cares if their victims are afk or not?
Freighters most certainly do afk in belts.
CODE. are also people who're paying CCP to play the game, in a way that they're allowed to play the game.

Quote:
And talk of tanking your mining barge against high alpha damage is false, that damage can not be tanked.
CODE. rely on high DPS, not alpha, hence the use of Catalysts and not Thrashers. Stop being so ignorant.

It's totally possible to tank them; albeit at the expense of yield.
Hulks can hit 26k-37k EHP against blasters, more with Orca boosts. A Hulk is fapping useless without Orca support anyway due to the size of the ore hold.
Mackinaws can hit 30k-46k EHP against blasters, more with Orca boosts; you can still fit MLU's and hit those figures on both ships.
Skiffs and Procurers can hit stupid amounts of EHP while retaining respectable yield levels.
Alternatively fly Retrievers and consider the replacement of them as a cost of doing business in Eve.

Not being in the belt when they roll up is your best tank, although that requires effort in the form of watching local and using D-scan; something that some people are unwilling, or too damn lazy, to do.

Quote:
Whole sale destruction like this isn't good for business. CCP is trying to get more people to play a game, and when people find out that they are paying money to get everything stolen from them in hi-sec space, they take their subscription money and go play a different game.
Which part of "EVE is a harsh, dark universe" did you fail to understand?

I suggest that you read this post by CCP Falcon

Quote:
Allowing this type of game play to continue is Bad for Business; for CCP and for our player base.

Driving away paying customers is self-destructive.
So why has Eve outlasted many MMO's and remained successful for the last 11 years?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#24 - 2014-11-12 15:31:25 UTC
Kajurei Delainen wrote:

Driving away paying customers is self-destructive.


But what you're asking for is to have CCP take your side against other paying customers (the sucide gankers) and drive them away to suit you.

So, you're asking CCP to choose between two groups of players, both of which are paying customers.

One that just wants to log in to the client, afk while mining/hauling and watch Family Guy all day. And one that actually plays the game and interacts with other players.

Your way is the slow death of the game, where people are so bored to tears that they eventually just stop playing. The other is the way the game has always worked, and thrived, for more than a decade.

So why do you want to drive away paying customers, I ask you?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Azov Rassau
Iron Destiny
#25 - 2014-11-12 15:35:57 UTC
ggodhsup wrote:
i went afk once.....ONCE......ginger magician had my ship and pod.....and you know what?.... i didnt goto the forums......i just stopped afking.....

maybe i can get this to trend?

It would be great to see such 'trend'.

Someone recently created a topic, I think in C&P, talking about miners who should "go on a strike" by stopping mining completely for a month... Instead of that, what would happen if all miners and haulers reacted like you: all of them at their keyboards (as expected) and avoiding all ganks (with the usage of available in-game tools mentioned 4294756 times in these forums).
Now that would be a strike.

Hopefully, more Highsec residents will react like you did and adapt to the fact that there's a risk whenever you click Undock, because as admiral root said, there's a heavy cloud of incessant whining above Highsec... (which might, for example, dangerously result in another buff rain to the already-God-like CONCORD etc).

Be the change you want to see in Highsec.

Anti-Ganking Fun: www.gankerjamming.com
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-11-12 16:08:47 UTC
The biggest mistake people make is actually undocking in a freighter.

Those ships are clearly not fit for purpose.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#27 - 2014-11-12 16:17:27 UTC
Kajurei Delainen wrote:
The tears have made a river from the losses these suicide gankers have caused.
The alliance is CODE.
Their killboard says it all, they get in T2 fit catalysts and group attack everything.
KILLBOARD
How does CCP continue to allow this to happen?
There is nothing any one can do about it either, it is a game mechanic.



Oh Dear!
CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#28 - 2014-11-12 16:26:48 UTC
Don't worry everyone, I am AWOXing them and shall be destroying them from the inside!

They won't even see it coming!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#29 - 2014-11-12 16:40:22 UTC
I don't know how anyone can say there is too much of any kind of pvp going on in highsec and keep a straight face.
Paranoid Loyd
#30 - 2014-11-12 16:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I don't know how anyone can say there is too much of any kind of pvp going on in highsec and keep a straight face.

Like this: THERE IS TOO MUCH OF ANY KIND PVP IN HIGHSEC. Straight

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#31 - 2014-11-12 16:52:56 UTC
Agree with OP....that the same gankers keep ganking without any real deterrent to continuing shows that law enforcement is broken. It fundamentally makes the game more tedious and less fun for the vast majority of highsec PvE folks. Personally I don't haul at all, travel fit my ships + cloak + mwd, and don't autopilot, which makes me essentially 100% gank proof. Of course it's also not very exciting, and that tedium is the real result of CODE - spreading boredom as people take precautions to avoid the ganks.

Thankfully CCP is starting to realize how negative this whole meta is, as awoxxing seems destined to be tossed overboard, I imagne that wardeccs will soon be curtailed, and the new bowhead ship was at least given a buffed up tank and an agility bonus. The era of the griefer is coming to a close.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2014-11-12 17:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
Agree with OP....that the same gankers keep ganking without any real deterrent to continuing shows that law enforcement is broken. It fundamentally makes the game more tedious and less fun for the vast majority of highsec PvE folks.
Nope it shows that Concord are working as intended, they were never designed to restrict PvP in highsec.

As for your claim of tedium, the inverse is in fact true, gankers make the game more interesting for those of use that actually make the effort to outwit and outmanoeuvre them. Without the element of danger they add to highsec most highsec activities would be about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Quote:
Personally I don't haul at all, travel fit my ships + cloak + mwd, and don't autopilot, which makes me essentially 100% gank proof.
Good for you, you've taken steps to mitigate the risk. You'll never be 100% gank proof unless you never leave station.

Quote:
Of course it's also not very exciting, and that tedium is the real result of CODE - spreading boredom as people take precautions to avoid the ganks.
Do you know what an oxymoron is?

Quote:
Thankfully CCP is starting to realize how negative this whole meta is, as awoxxing seems destined to be tossed overboard, I imagne that wardeccs will soon be curtailed, and the new bowhead ship was at least given a buffed up tank and an agility bonus.
Awoxing will still be possible after the proposed changes, it'll just be harder to carry it out in highsec. Wardecs are unlikely to be curtailed, unlike you CCP want a vibrant single shard player driven game not, what is for all intents and purposes, a separate highsec Trammel shard that is populated by gold farmers.

Quote:
The era of the griefer is coming to a close.
Firstly they're not griefers by CCP's definition on the term, which is the only one that matters. Secondly, you wish, keep dreaming.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#33 - 2014-11-12 17:10:28 UTC
veers,
you have given us every reason to believe that you do not fully(or even partially) understand the systems and meta you talk about.

as hilariously evidenced here.
Veers Belvar wrote:
Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation

ha!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#34 - 2014-11-12 17:11:41 UTC
Simple, because CCP is behind the gankers in even helping to created the code for public display. As one of the CSM Minutes said, they want to cause as much turmoil as possible in the game.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#35 - 2014-11-12 17:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
veers,
you have given us every reason to believe that you do not fully(or even partially) understand the systems and meta you talk about.

as hilariously evidenced here.
Veers Belvar wrote:
Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation

ha!


Yes, sherlock, inflation is determined by the supply and demand for money. In a closed economy like in Eve, if isk in circulation goes up 10%, but all commodities that you would purchase with isk increase in circulation by 20%, we would....wait for it....expect deflation....just like what we have now.

Maybe it's time to stop shooting noobs and learn some economics. Money supply is certainly not the sole determining factor of inflation rate...if that was the case economies in hyperinflation could just tighten the money supply....and japan, experiencing real deflation, could just increase the money supply.

I mean come on buddy, we can accept shoddy PvP here, but not shoddy economics.
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#36 - 2014-11-12 17:20:42 UTC
CODE Agent AC wrote:
Don't worry everyone, I am AWOXing them and shall be destroying them from the inside!

They won't even see it coming!


We're fine with that as long as you can mash your keyboard when we tell you to so at least until the time comes you are contributing to dps.

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#37 - 2014-11-12 17:23:23 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Personally I don't haul at all, travel fit my ships + cloak + mwd, and don't autopilot, which makes me essentially 100% gank proof. Of course it's also not very exciting, and that tedium is the real result of CODE - spreading boredom as people take precautions to avoid the ganks.


The fact that high sec is not a safe place makes the game more fun. I find hauling to be quite a fun activity, especially with valuable cargo. Hauling is a PvP activity, since you are hauling against the risk of being ganked by other players, and lots of players in EvE enjoy PvP because it is fun!

As for CODE, well whatever conflict may occur between us in the game, they are creating content which can help people to have fun, and player-driven content is what EvE is all about. If there are players out there not enjoying themselves then maybe they should think about whether they are playing the right game!

Of course, CCP seem to have decided that intracorp attacks will trigger a concord response in high sec, but they have previously stated that suicide ganking is here to stay. I think it is a bit of a step too far to say that suicide ganking is out of hand because it is still quite easy to have fun playing the game, and as long as that continues, I expect it will remain a valid game mechanic.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#38 - 2014-11-12 17:29:58 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
veers,
you have given us every reason to believe that you do not fully(or even partially) understand the systems and meta you talk about.

as hilariously evidenced here.
Veers Belvar wrote:
Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation

ha!


Yes, sherlock, inflation is determined by the supply and demand for money. In a closed economy like in Eve, if isk in circulation goes up 10%, but all commodities that you would purchase with isk increase in circulation by 20%, we would....wait for it....expect deflation....just like what we have now.

Maybe it's time to stop shooting noobs and learn some economics. Money supply is certainly not the sole determining factor of inflation rate...if that was the case economies in hyperinflation could just tighten the money supply....and japan, experiencing real deflation, could just increase the money supply.

I mean come on buddy, we can accept shoddy PvP here, but not shoddy economics.

http://i.imgur.com/ayKucNL.jpg

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#39 - 2014-11-12 17:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


As for your claim of tedium, the inverse is in fact true, gankers make the game more interesting for those of use that actually make the effort to outwit and outmanoeuvre them. Without the element of danger they add to highsec most highsec activities would be about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Quote:
Personally I don't haul at all, travel fit my ships + cloak + mwd, and don't autopilot, which makes me essentially 100% gank proof.
Good for you, you've taken steps to mitigate the risk. You'll never be 100% gank proof unless you never leave station.

Quote:
Thankfully CCP is starting to realize how negative this whole meta is, as awoxxing seems destined to be tossed overboard, I imagne that wardeccs will soon be curtailed, and the new bowhead ship was at least given a buffed up tank and an agility bonus.
Awoxing will still be possible after the proposed changes, it'll just be harder to carry it out in highsec. Wardecs are unlikely to be curtailed, unlike you CCP want a vibrant single shard player driven game, not what is for all intents and purposes a separate highsec Trammel shard that is populated by gold farmers.



1. CONCORD was designed to act as a law enforcement agency and punish criminals. There are 4 justifications for criminal punishment -

1. Moral retribution
2. rehabilitation
3. Protection of society from the individual criminal
4. Deterrence of other would be criminals

2,3,4 are certainly not occurring. And 1 would require far stiffer punishments, certainly restitution for the lost loot would be a minimum requirement. Law enforcement agencies that are unable to appropriately punish career criminals are not worthy of the name, and are little more than joke organizations. There is no way that someone who blows up 10 freighters in a single day would be free to roam the streets, subject only to a 15 minute timeout.

Also, the idea that without ganking highsec would be boring is not true - incursions offer a measure of PvP and competition without ganking....I find them enjoyable and engaging. We don't need capsuleer ships exploding to have fun. What CODE really does is cause individual players to avoid activities like hauling, which hardly makes highsec more interesting.

2. With cloak + MWD + travel fit, close to 300k ehp, and not susceptible to bumping, you are virtually ungankable. It's just boring to need to travel like that in highsec....how is forcing people to use boring travel fits good for the game?

3. Awoxxing in highsec is deterring people from joining corporations. So are wardeccs. So is corporate theft. CCP realizes that deterring social engagement in highsec is bad for the game, and is taking steps to remedy that. I don't see how getting rid of awoxxing but keeping wardeccs and theft will accomplish that. CCP is prioritizing the 98% of non-gankers in highsec over the 2% of highsec that is gankers, which seems to be a fundamentally sound business move.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#40 - 2014-11-12 17:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Veers Belvar wrote:

1. CONCORD were designed to act as a lawn enforcement agency and punish criminals. There are 4 justifications for criminal punishment -

1. Moral retribution
2. rehabilitation
3. Protection of society from the individual criminal
4. Deterrence of other would be criminals

2,3,4 are certainly not occurring. And 1 would require far stiffer punishments, certainly restitution for the lost loot would be a minimum requirement. Law enforcement agencies that are unable to appropriately punish career criminals are not worthy of the name, and are little more than joke organizations. There is no way that someone who blows up 10 freighters in a single day would be free to roam the streets, subject only to a 15 minute timeout.

Also, the idea that without ganking highsec would be boring is not true - incursions offer a measure of PvP and competition without ganking....I find them enjoyable and engaging. We don't need capsuleer ships exploding to have fun. What CODE really does is cause individual players to avoid activities like hauling, which hardly makes highsec more interesting.

3. With cloak + MWD + travel fit, close to 300k ehp, and not susceptible to bumping, you are virtually ungankable. It's just boring to need to travel like that in highsec....how is forcing people to use boring travel fits good for the game?

4. Awoxxing in highsec is deterring people from joining corporations. So are wardeccs. So is corporate theft. CCP realizes that deterring social engagement in highsec is bad for the game, and is taking steps to remedy that. I don't see how getting rid of awoxxing but keeping wardeccs and theft will accomplish that. CCP is prioritizing the 98% of non-gankers in highsec over the 2% of highsec that is gankers, which seems to be a fundamentally sound business move.

internet spaceships veers, not real life.
concord are a punitive mechanic not a civil service.
2,3 and 4 are the responsibility of players.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=