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The problem with flagging in corpmate attacks. No more easy PvP train.

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13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-11-11 09:11:09 UTC
Now how will corps train new members in PvP with live fire exercises? Was people shooting corpmates as a grief tactic really so bad that this opportunity is lost? Will there be a new mehcanic to allow corpmates to shoot each other effortlessly instead of having to resort to duel spam?

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2014-11-11 09:14:50 UTC
Duel, find a WH, go to null, go to lowsec.
Ama Scelesta
#3 - 2014-11-11 09:16:40 UTC
There is no details as of this time how or even if the change will go through. Even if implemented the final version might lean to giving options instead of making a blanket change. Assuming the blanket change goes through you can use dueling, use the suspect system in a safespot/non-crowded system or go out of highsec for the training. You have options.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-11-11 09:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Ama Scelesta wrote:
There is no details as of this time how or even if the change will go through. Even if implemented the final version might lean to giving options instead of making a blanket change. Assuming the blanket change goes through you can use dueling, use the suspect system in a safespot/non-crowded system or go out of highsec for the training. You have options.


Assuming you understand the flaws in those options, I have to ask why you think it should be permissible to make it more dangerous and cumbersome for poeple to practice PvP within a corp?

baltec1 wrote:
Duel, find a WH, go to null, go to lowsec.


Three options which involve getting interrupted and ganked, a fourth option which involves mass tedious clicking.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#5 - 2014-11-11 10:25:35 UTC
If you want to train your new members in pvp, you should like the idea of getting interrupted and gank attempts. then you atleast get a real fight on your hands and they can learn from that.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-11-11 10:34:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Duel, find a WH, go to null, go to lowsec.

Meh x4

Best suggestion ive heard is let the corp choose if they want corpmate aggression or not
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-11-11 10:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
OP is covert whining how much hard it will be to awox under guise of another thread about shooting Corp mates with CONCORDOKKEN being the resulting punishment for risk aversion in high sec, yet will probably respond at some point that they get the right to be the aggressor. Live fire PvP.....lol make another Corp with half and wardec or solo duel...not rocket science to "train"Roll

Edit Damn typo and auto correct
Kaely Tanniss
The Conference Council
The Conference
#8 - 2014-11-11 10:53:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
13kr1d1 wrote:
Now how will corps train new members in PvP with live fire exercises? Was people shooting corpmates as a grief tactic really so bad that this opportunity is lost? Will there be a new mehcanic to allow corpmates to shoot each other effortlessly instead of having to resort to duel spam?


Though this topic has only really been in discussion....Why not use sisi to practice PvP...it costs almost nothing and your noobs won't get kills on their records before they get a chance to get out there and do the real thing...just a thought.. The only issue I can see with it is if the new player is younger than the last mirror...other than that, it's a viable alternative.

There are many ways to get around this if it indeed does become an issue. Low-sec, Wh's, Null..duels...like others have said. Blink

Besides..if not being able to awox is the issue...there will always be ways around it. Twisted

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#9 - 2014-11-11 10:58:44 UTC
Sounds like a perfect use for "the dojo". SmileSmile
Alejandro Rebenga
#10 - 2014-11-11 11:02:12 UTC
*Enjoys pvp and 100 isk items in the test server with others*

huh

btw, new UI stuff in sisi already.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#11 - 2014-11-11 11:13:43 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Duel, find a WH, go to null, go to lowsec.

Meh x4

Best suggestion ive heard is let the corp choose if they want corpmate aggression or not


No that is the second best suggestion. The best suggestion is to not implement a change that will make in-corp training more complicated and remove content from them game in a misguided attempted to solve a non-problem, and that in all likelihood, will not change anything in terms of new player corp recruitment and player retention.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Hicksimus
Torgue
#12 - 2014-11-11 11:25:00 UTC
If they make it so that even though I have duels declined autotragically that I can still get requests from corp mates I'm fine with the change.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Dave Stark
#13 - 2014-11-11 11:35:44 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Was people shooting corpmates as a grief tactic really so bad that this opportunity is lost?


no, ccp are just too lazy to fix the issue with logistics not getting any flags for repping people involved in corpmate on corpmate violence leading to nigh invulnerable awoxing ships.

they figured they'd use it as an excuse to get rid of awoxing.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-11-11 12:37:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Was people shooting corpmates as a grief tactic really so bad that this opportunity is lost?


no, ccp are just too lazy to fix the issue with logistics not getting any flags for repping people involved in corpmate on corpmate violence leading to nigh invulnerable awoxing ships.

they figured they'd use it as an excuse to get rid of awoxing.

surprisingly this issue is something awoxers and carebears generally agree to be complete bullshit

i said what i think on awoxing already
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-11-11 12:46:12 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
no, ccp are just too lazy to fix the issue with logistics not getting any flags for repping people involved in corpmate on corpmate violence leading to nigh invulnerable awoxing ships.

they figured they'd use it as an excuse to get rid of awoxing.



What kind of flags should logi get in the present system? How would these flags prevent them from what they're doing?

Call me Joe.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#16 - 2014-11-11 13:27:32 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Now how will corps train new members in PvP with live fire exercises? Was people shooting corpmates as a grief tactic really so bad that this opportunity is lost? Will there be a new mehcanic to allow corpmates to shoot each other effortlessly instead of having to resort to duel spam?

The duel system seems perfectly adequate from my perspective - and if it's training then it's hardly spam... If you're training a small group it's pretty straightforward, a larger group might get troublesome but it feels like by the time you reach a problematic scale you're probably large enough that a roam is a better choice...
Persifonne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-11-11 13:36:46 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
no, ccp are just too lazy to fix the issue with logistics not getting any flags for repping people involved in corpmate on corpmate violence leading to nigh invulnerable awoxing ships.

they figured they'd use it as an excuse to get rid of awoxing.



What kind of flags should logi get in the present system? How would these flags prevent them from what they're doing?


Neut logi dont go suspect cuz corpmates dont get limited engaument flag. When corpmate shoots corpmate... give limited engaument flag, then when logi reps it goes yellow. Why is this so hard ccp?

Neut logi already goes yellow if corp is at war with another corp and a neut logi reps a someone in corp

Seriously how the hell is it so jard to give someoen the dumb teal 5min timer when they shoot a corp mate? Fized
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-11-11 13:37:36 UTC
Alejandro Rebenga wrote:
*Enjoys pvp and 100 isk items in the test server with others*

huh

btw, new UI stuff in sisi already.


Yeah I and I think the new gray and bland UI for the neocom is terrible..

Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
If you want to train your new members in pvp, you should like the idea of getting interrupted and gank attempts. then you atleast get a real fight on your hands and they can learn from that.


No. Flying expected ships vs other expected ships and controlling variables is what helps people learn more through training. That's why exercises from boxing to gun fire don't start purely from just throwing you in a cage with a pro or sending you onto a drill field with fake explosions and pop-up targets. Same thing with musical instruments. You don't go all flight of the bumblebee day one, train core skills and different technique all the time to eventually bring it all together under a cohesive whole.

Aqriue wrote:
OP is covert whining how much hard it will be to awox under guise of another thread about shooting Corp mates with CONCORDOKKEN being the resulting punishment for risk aversion in high sec, yet will probably respond at some point that they get the right to be the aggressor. Live fire PvP.....lol make another Corp with half and wardec or solo duel...not rocket science to "train"Roll

Edit Damn typo and auto correct


Yeah, because paying for wardecs on top of possible lost ships is good for newer players.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Persifonne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-11-11 13:39:19 UTC
Oh and neut logi already goes suspect for repping a duel.... so to all those saying duels are the answer... how you train logi without having them go suspect for repping a memeber of your training duel?
Persifonne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-11-11 13:51:46 UTC
And isd get a ccp dev in here of this thread will keep getting made over and over and over dudes

The ccp decs enter the monument thread 5mjns in they enter the websitr thread 3mins in.. ccp devs/isds get us a response in this thread now. We dwmand it
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