Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So generally ... ppl cry about T3 because they are so "OP", but are they?
Only thing that could be called OP on T3 is their buffer tank, if you dont count damnation you cant pretty much build more tanked subcap than T3 ... thats pretty much only think that should be nerfed there and the way to do that would be replacing buffer subsystem bonus for another deff bonus (maybe some kind of partial ewar immunity), all other deff subs are fine by me (active is same as any other active bonus on any other hull and so is resistance sub)
To their DPS ... better than assault cruisers, worse than command ships and battleships ... i see no OPness there
To their Ewar ... worse bonuses than recons but better tank ... again, what is OP there?
Their last role is cloaked heavy tackler but can you call someone who has 300 DPS on less than 10km range OP?

All in all ... if T3 would get removed buffer bonus it would be step forward, but nerfing anything else would devaluate T3 since they are Tech3 they shouldnt be same as T1 ... in that case you could start crying for nerfing vargur to maelstorm stats, kronos to hyperion etc ... ability to fly better shis is bought by skilling time and price and i think its perfectly fair ... T3 compared to their fixed role counterparts are generally better tanked but worse in role itself (if you want best dps you get BS/command, if you want best ewar you get recon ... etc) ...

Only one who would actually lose by removing buffer sub is passive pve tengu, but that could be solved by giving them more cap regen to encourage those players to build active ... As for brick fitted PVP T3 i think resist sub is more than enough for this role ...

Also i would remove skill loss on T3 loss ... i see no point of this whole idea and it only discourages ppl to not fly T3

Btw ... if you think this is written by someone who never sat in T3 you wrong ... i flew tengu for long time but i changed it for marauder (because t3 is so OP, right?) and im still flying my loki for over 2 years ...

No the problem is how small their sig radius is with all that buffer. And it's not the buffer subsystems so much as the ability to fit 1600mm armor plates easily on such a tiny sig radius, with extremely high resistances.

Tell me more about how a percentage bonus to a small signature radius available in a module you have to equip fixes the problem that is partially based on high base resistances.

Come on, if you guys are going to shoot my idea down, at least try to sound like you have an argument.

The ease they have in fitting the 100MN AB is directly related to other aspects that set these out of balance: the ease of fitting 1600mm armor plates, and other things they can do with vast amounts of excess powergrid. A better bandaid fix would be to reduce the powergrid of the fits that clearly don't need nearly that much.


That'll make a pretty bad day for anyone. Even then it still has battleship EHP, but the battleship can be hit without putting triple webs on it.

I dunno about other areas of eve but I've never seen endemic oversized prop mod use of T3s in the areas I've experience of - sure you get the odd 100MN AB Loki (DON'T chase it) but they handle like a brick and a rapier or another loki depending on circumstances deals with it handily the other is the odd 100MN AB Tengu - usually accompanied with 2.5+BN ISK worth of implants another 2.5-4+BN ISK of fittings and a links alt and its a lot harder to fly well than it sounds.

just nerf tengu

Thought I'd chime in:

My Proteus is so OP, I just sold it as the garbage it is in current meta, got two ishars and a gila in return.
My Tengu is so OP, it (cheap 1.1bil 100mn tengu) is about to be replaced by an orthrus, who does kiting like 200% better.
My Loki is so OP, I last flew it to web things for a dreadnought. Since Ashimmus do the Lokis Job about as good and also provide neuts, guess which will remain in my hangar.... Right, the dread. I got corpmates for the webbing.
My Legion turned into a carebear vessel for lowclass sites.

All this happened clearly because I'm a scrub and after years of exclusively flying T3s, Guardians and 100mn tengus I have no idea what I'm doing. Or it could just be that I'm not willing to deal with the many downsides of T3s to justify using one instead of superior HACs, CS or pirate cruisers.

Currently, T3s are good for blob-warfare (railprot, beamlegion, artyloki, railgu) and that's about it.
They go fast, but Eve in. general goes faster (a bricked proteus makes roughly 1300m/s with decent nav skills, loki and legion can make 1700 with fitting mwd-speed subs but tengu/prot are really happy to exceed 1400 before OH. Battleships go this fast (i.E. Apoc, Mega, Phoon etc.)

Their resistances aren't plus-quam-T2, they are exactly T2. To be precise, a legion's resists are 20% worse than a sacriledge's. Ripping off the last useful piece about them, the resistances, would finally manage to make them worse than current T1 cruisers, almost regardless of price even.

Tl;dr: Go piloting 101, T3s are slow as ****. If you got caught, either your pvp setup sucks or you derped, but don't blame a hull that needs love, not nerfs. In case your fleet got owned by a few T3s with guards, don't blame fleet, improve your target calling or bring ecm next time, it slaughters T3 fleets with their average 15SS across their dps.

I personally don't think most of T3s are OP. They are well worth their SP, isk invested in them etc.

Only thing that really requires nerf is Tengu in it's current version for fleet fights. 230k ehp, sig radius of 260, stable at 69%, easy to fit with T2 mods....thats a bit too much. You can't get something like that out of other T3s. It's also a reason why almost every alliance flies tengus.

1. indeed and you score very high on this point!
2. seriously what is their role ? plz enlighten me
3. you can loose a few SPs which should be fixed but you make it sound like they have a ton of disadvantages and CCP must be happy "some" people want to use them.
4. its not out of thin air, but you dont have the wits to see it, they are OP and that is why it outclasses every T2 cruiser with the exception of logistics

you can name it all you want but it is a cruiser, if it was a battle cruiser CCP would have made it train *race* battle cruiser to 5 and named it a strategic battle cruiser.

Fairly anaemic dps and only really suited to medium to large gang use - even an eagle in that role has over 100K EHP and slightly better damage projection.

Outside of a situation where it isn't a pure numbers game those mids sacrificed for tank would get you very dead.