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The Poor Noob is in L4

Author
Xuje Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-11-09 14:40:17 UTC
Hello,

I'm basically 2 month old, 3m SP, 70m isk in my wallet and I make 6 to 8m isk/hour from L3 missions in a myrmidon with T2 modules (except weapons) and T2 light and medium drones. I just reached L4 and I realized it is going to be a lot of grind to get me to the next step.
Until now, I found the missioning to be reasonably rewarding: income was ok, new skills to learn in reasonable time, new modules to fit. The game experience was fun. But when I saw the battleship prices (and other T2 ships) and learning times getting bigger and bigger (34 days to T2 sentries), I started feeling a little bit disheartened.

What can I do to get my little fun back from missioning (or from Eve in general)?

Ideas:
1. Grind my way to a battleship (Domi with sentries ?): long and it seems not interesting anymore
2. Fly cheap frigates to low and null sec for exploration: I tried. It is fun aside from having to be paranoid all the time. Unfortunately I got bored after being killed a few times. It's not fun to always be the mouse.
3. PI, Industry or Trading: It is fun to make spreadsheets and install your setup but then it starts to be boring when you have to resupply. Anyway there is no nice business plan left (at least in high sec) and small margins and no starting capital = no profit.
4. Join a corp and do stuff: Unfortunately I am a casual player and I am not sure I can invest myself enough to make things work.
5. PVP: havent tried yet. Can you do it for cheap ?
6. Buy a PLEX and get to business: I dont feel psychologically ready to buy ingame money.
7. Quit the game.

And you, where was your fun when you were a young pilot ?
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-11-09 15:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Xuje Aldent wrote:
What can I do to get my little fun back from missioning

This the wrong question.

Xuje Aldent wrote:
(or from Eve in general)?

This the right question. Missions are a means to an end, not an end in and of themselves. You run them to get ISK and then you use that ISK to pay for whatever you find to be fun, generally some type of PVP.

Xuje Aldent wrote:
Ideas:
1. Grind my way to a battleship (Domi with sentries ?): long and it seems not interesting anymore
2. Fly cheap frigates to low and null sec for exploration: I tried. It is fun aside from having to be paranoid all the time. Unfortunately I got bored after being killed a few times. It's not fun to always be the mouse.
3. PI, Industry or Trading: It is fun to make spreadsheets and install your setup but then it starts to be boring when you have to resupply. Anyway there is no nice business plan left (at least in high sec) and small margins and no starting capital = no profit.
4. Join a corp and do stuff: Unfortunately I am a casual player and I am not sure I can invest myself enough to make things work.
5. PVP: havent tried yet. Can you do it for cheap ?
6. Buy a PLEX and get to business: I dont feel psychologically ready to buy ingame money.
7. Quit the game.

And you, where was your fun when you were a young pilot ?

1. You are probably very close to a sentry Domi already. T2 sentries are not as important as they once were. There is nothing wrong with starting out with T1.

2. You don't have to be the mouse. Hunt other explorers yourself. Most stealth bombers can be creatively fit for this purpose. The SoE frigate and cruiser also do this quite well.

3. I agree the market can be boring. But some people like it.

4. There are plenty of casual corps out there. Ask around, get to know people. PVP is often a good way to meet new people.

5. PVP can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. You can also look into joining CODE.

6. This isn't really necessary. It doesn't take much ISK to have fun.

7. Can I have your stuff?

My fun was missions, EFT warrioring, loosing failfit ships in lowsec, and hanging out with my corp mates. Aside from the failfit ships bit, things haven't changed much. When I have time I do PVP and incursions. I also like nullsec exploration. I also dabble in nullsec industry and PI.
Xuje Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-11-09 19:48:17 UTC
Thank you for the feedback.

My point with missioning was that the progression between L3 and L4 feels steep compared to the previous steps. It is not the missions difficulty but the price of a fitted battleship that discouraged me.
I agree with you on missioning as being the mean of fueling other activities but for the moment, I feel I cant do much with the small isk/hour I can get.

2. Here again, the SoE ships look super nice but incredibly expensive for me. I'll have a look at the stealth bomber.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-11-09 20:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
The jump from L3 missions to L4 is pretty steep. There is nothing wrong with running L4s slowly in a BC or low skilled BS while you get the hang of things. Stick a large micro jump drive on a BS. It basically makes you unkillable in missions since NPCs never scram you. (burner missions aside) Try running L4s with other people or check out the "helpmymission" channel in game.

The best thing by far is to find some people to run with. EVE is a social game after all.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-11-09 22:06:48 UTC
Don't need a Battleship to run level 4 missions, there's Cruiser class hulls that can complete them such as Command Ships, Heavy Assault Cruisers, T3 Strategic Cruisers, etc.

I know people who complete level 4 missions in Assault Frigates. Course the ship fit is top equipment with high skill levels. The whole point is it doesn't require a Battleship.

After reading the original post of your thread, I think you should slow down a bit and stay with level 3's and increase your skills. Just because a player can quickly jump into and pilot a Battleship doesn't mean they're actually qualified to fly it, especially if their support / fitting skills aren't at max level.

My first 9 months of playing this game, I stayed in a Rifter Frigate and max trained every skill related to it and buffed the fit up with top equipment before I even thought about jumping into a new ship. I was completing level 3 encounter missions and gaining the bonus reward in a T1 Frigate. The only reason I jumped into a Battlecruiser was to complete the missions quicker so I could collect the loot and salvage from the wrecks before they despawned.

I mix Exploration with Mission Running and jump between the 2 to break up boredom. There's also a different form of missions which are offered by Event Agents that you might consider trying. I definitely enjoyed completing them.


DMC
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-11-09 22:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
The game is so full of options, it is important to set your own playing goals and then just make them real. For example, run and survive one or all of the pirate lvl4 epic arcs in null sec, then take and ship the faction blueprint reward to high sec and build the ship from scratch, don't buy anything from the market. I guarantee you a lot of adrenaline, new experiences (how to survive bubbles in null, how to set ping bookmarks on gates, etc.), and a couple hundred million of ISK in rewards.

For newbie friendly group PvP I recommend to have a look at NPSI communities like Spectre Fleet, RvB Ganked, Redemption Road or Stille Gewalt (german community).

I'm my own NPC alt.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2014-11-10 03:14:46 UTC
with your skills you will probably make more isk running level 3s than slowly grinding out lv4s. For a short term goal I'd say get sentry drone interfacing to lv 4, and then buy a set of faction sentry drones.

also as a new pilot the most fun I had was flying around with my corp in t1 frigs shooting each other. good fun cheap pvp. Seems that novice FW plexes would be one of the best places to try this out solo. But I'd still say join a corp.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#8 - 2014-11-10 03:38:09 UTC
You might try exploring for pve content in high-sec. Both anomolies, and then signatures. You are probably ready to run a ded 3 site if you can find them.

Are you cashing in your LP for isk? That's a big part of the isk for regular missions.

You might consider Faction Warfare as a way to try pvp on the cheap - plus it has a way to earn isk. Just be aware you will destroy your standings against 2 of the factions while building for the other 2.

Go to low and try to hunt other new explorers to get a turn being the cat. Take their loot for isk.

Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-11-10 10:02:18 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
You might try exploring for pve content in high-sec. Both anomolies, and then signatures. You are probably ready to run a ded 3 site if you can find them.


Be warned, however, that the competition in highsec exploration is high to the point, that you will usually get company in a DED 3/10 or 4/10 as soon as you take more than a few minutes to clear it. While for me highsec combat signatures happened to be the source of my first 10B in eve, it was more than frustrating in those days to have almost completed the first room in GSO (in a horribly underskilled Drake) just to get a Tengu warp in, charge to the gate and steamroll the telescope in the 2nd pocket (substitute Tengu for any FoM ship, like Cerb, Ishtar or Gila, since T3 got banned from entering DED 4/10 plexes).

As others have already mentioned: This is Eve after all, there is no predefined goal or level progression. And missions are indeed (imho) only one of many sources of easy ISK to fund other activities, like loosing said ISK in pretty explosions.

My advice is to experiment with everything available, as long as you can afford it, find out what works for you in terms of fun and satisfactory rewards and then stick to it and specialize (could even be multiple career paths simultaneously).
Ix Method
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-11-10 10:51:31 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
EVE is a social game after all.

This. When you have people to knock around with for the fun stuff, the isk grinding hours to make it happen become much less of a drag.

PVE/Spreadsheets as an endgame kinda misses the point doesn't it? Granted some people hang around for ten years saving the Damsel but viewed dispassionately there are hundreds of better 'game' games out there. The beauty of Eve is everything else it offers.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-11-10 17:45:20 UTC
Banko Mato wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
You might try exploring for pve content in high-sec. Both anomolies, and then signatures. You are probably ready to run a ded 3 site if you can find them.


Be warned, however, that the competition in highsec exploration is high to the point, that you will usually get company in a DED 3/10 or 4/10 as soon as you take more than a few minutes to clear it. While for me highsec combat signatures happened to be the source of my first 10B in eve, it was more than frustrating in those days to have almost completed the first room in GSO (in a horribly underskilled Drake) just to get a Tengu warp in, charge to the gate and steamroll the telescope in the 2nd pocket (substitute Tengu for any FoM ship, like Cerb, Ishtar or Gila, since T3 got banned from entering DED 4/10 plexes).

As others have already mentioned: This is Eve after all, there is no predefined goal or level progression. And missions are indeed (imho) only one of many sources of easy ISK to fund other activities, like loosing said ISK in pretty explosions.

My advice is to experiment with everything available, as long as you can afford it, find out what works for you in terms of fun and satisfactory rewards and then stick to it and specialize (could even be multiple career paths simultaneously).


Strat Cruisers got banned from entering DED 3/10s. They can enter 4/10s.
Typher Sloan
Vagabonds and Freelancers
#12 - 2014-11-10 19:38:37 UTC
MJD (Micro Jump Drive) battleships have made L4 missions easier. Focus on getting a T2 tank, and at least level 4 sentry skills and you should be fine. Warp in, drop MTU (mobile tracking unit) jump out, and start working on the smallest ships first. If you start taking too much damage, jump away again. Repeat until enemies are dead.
Xuje Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-11-10 19:47:06 UTC
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I understand that BS or HAC are more like a mid-term goal for me now.

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
with your skills you will probably make more isk running level 3s than slowly grinding out lv4s. For a short term goal I'd say get sentry drone interfacing to lv 4, and then buy a set of faction sentry drones.

I think I'll stick with this as a short term goal.

Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Are you cashing in your LP for isk?

Yes, with LP and bounties included, I roughly make 7m isk/hour. At this rate, in 10-20h of (efficient) game play (around 15 days for me), I will have around 150m-200m in my wallet. Still far from a fitted battleship. Apart from sentries, do you have other ideas to help me improve my mission clear time ?

Banko Mato wrote:
Be warned, however, that the competition in highsec exploration is high to the point, that you will usually get company in a DED 3/10 or 4/10 as soon as you take more than a few minutes to clear it

I havent tried combat sites yet but I am not so fond of this kind of competition. It was already a pain when I was training for data and relic sites in high sec.

Anyway, as a lot of you said, it might be best to start going social and find a nice corp soon.
Xuje Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-11-10 20:08:22 UTC
Typher Sloan wrote:
MJD (Micro Jump Drive) battleships have made L4 missions easier. Focus on getting a T2 tank, and at least level 4 sentry skills and you should be fine. Warp in, drop MTU (mobile tracking unit) jump out, and start working on the smallest ships first. If you start taking too much damage, jump away again. Repeat until enemies are dead.

I didnt know about the MTU. I'll have a try.

Here is my Myrmidon's fit if you have ideas for reasonable improvements (money and skill wise).

[Myrmidon, Xuje Aldent's Myrmidon]
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x8
Hammerhead II x6
Salvage Drone I x5
Vespa II x6

Phased Plasma M x1105
Titanium Sabot M x2005
Fusion M x1600
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-11-10 21:49:34 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:

Strat Cruisers got banned from entering DED 3/10s. They can enter 4/10s.

Either this is a recent stealth change or it's a bug cuz T3 Cruisers were denied access to 4/10 and lower rated DED sites a long time ago.

Some people say T3's are allowed, others say T3's aren't allowed. I haven't seen any statement from Dev's confirming T3's now have access to DED 4/10 sites.

Seriously, this type of change is definitely noteworthy and should have been mentioned in a Dev Blog or at least included in the Patch Notes.

Ugh



DMC
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2014-11-10 21:59:00 UTC
like I said with the sentry drone thing, but beyond that tech 2 drone damage amps, also you will likely get a better return for now with drone nav comps, as the biggest draw back to scout drones is the travel time between targets. I don't think they will have much trouble with tracking.

as soon as you are using sentry drones, switch back to the omnidirectional tracking links, as they give fairly nice benefits to sentries.

I switched the fit up a bit to what I'd try. not sure you will want gardes, as I haven't run most lv3s in a while, but should be easy to swap out for longer range (and/or damage type). the main other thing I can think of is dropping one gun for a drone link augmentor to get more range for your sentry drones.

[Myrmidon, Xuje Aldent's Myrmidon - Modified]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Federation Navy Garde x4
Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet II x5
Phased Plasma M x1105
Titanium Sabot M x2005
Fusion M x1600

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

David Kir
Dead Game Who Cares
#17 - 2014-11-10 22:13:29 UTC
Alright, back on topic.

1) Find a group (or at least another player) to play with. I can not overstate how important this is. Solitary players do not last for long, in this game.

2) If you find missions entertaining, then find someone to mission with. There are plenty of people climbing up the mission ladder.
Helpmymission is a good place to start, but so is NPC corp chat. Don't fleet up easily, some people are out for your skin.

3) Someone will swear at me for this. You don't need T2 sentries. Either T1 or faction ones will do just OK, with good support skills. Sentries will kill targets faster than regular drones, at equivalent or slightly ower DPS, given the lack of travel time.
You need a MJD: having one and knowing when to use it will keep you alive.

4) You shouldn't leap to L4s until you have a sturdy T2 tank. Once you do, try a couple with a friend, to get a taste of the difficulty. The difficulty gap between 3 and 4 is very large. You might have to consider doing L3s in your battleship for a while, optimizing it in the process.

5) You already have most of what you need for a Dominix. The hull will cost you about 180 mil. You already have a very large part of that, counting your BC. Mail The Angel Project (it's an ingame character) if you need some spare isk, she'll help you.

6) Consider doing L3s in your battleship. Your isk/h will improve over what you're averaging now, and you'll get to practice with it. There's no rush.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#18 - 2014-11-10 22:20:57 UTC
Speaking as someone who made this mistake: don't get into battleships until your skills are good. They don't have to be perfect, but I was poking around in a Megathron with Gallente Battleship 2 and just barely the fitting skills to manage, and it was really painful. I blew up several times.

Lots and lots of good advice in this thread. L3s are actually not bad at all, income-wise, if you run them quickly. Also, don't forget to cash in your loyalty points!

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Beness
Vojtech Fekete
#19 - 2014-11-10 22:40:31 UTC
Xuje Aldent wrote:
Here is my Myrmidon's fit if you have ideas for reasonable improvements (money and skill wise).


Eve-Uni recommends shield-tanked Myrmidons for missions. The Rubi 1.0 version fields a stronger potential sustained tank than what you've got here - you'd want to run the appropriate pair of Shield Hardeners for the mission rats, and you do miss out on the Omnidirectional Tracking Link to help your future sentry drones.

That said, I've not flown a Myrmidon in a while, and never thought to shield tank it. I was using it for DED sites primarily, and sometimes ran into trouble in DED 4/10 rated sites with an armor tank that looked similar to what you've got.

Ideas tho:

  • Omnidirection Tracking Link isn't particularly useful until you've got sentry drones in play.
  • Myrmidons can fit Medium MJDs - if you're choosing between gunnery skills and drone skills, going for a "distance tank" fit may get you into L4s more quickly, and allow you to focus your immediate training on drone skills.
  • As a small tweak, consider dropping the powergrid rigs and downsizing your guns. I've heard CCP employees on podcasts saying "mixed guns are OK when you're getting other benefits." Given that at best half your damage is coming from guns, you might be better served choosing smaller guns for a bigger tank (with Auxiliary Nano Pump) or more drone damage (Sentry Damage Augmentor or maybe Drone Speed Augmentor).

Now I have a minimally tanked MJD sentry Myrmidon to figure out.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-11-11 07:52:37 UTC
Beness wrote:

Ideas tho:

  • Omnidirection Tracking Link isn't particularly useful until you've got sentry drones in play.
  • Myrmidons can fit Medium MJDs - if you're choosing between gunnery skills and drone skills, going for a "distance tank" fit may get you into L4s more quickly, and allow you to focus your immediate training on drone skills.
  • As a small tweak, consider dropping the powergrid rigs and downsizing your guns. I've heard CCP employees on podcasts saying "mixed guns are OK when you're getting other benefits." Given that at best half your damage is coming from guns, you might be better served choosing smaller guns for a bigger tank (with Auxiliary Nano Pump) or more drone damage (Sentry Damage Augmentor or maybe Drone Speed Augmentor).

Now I have a minimally tanked MJD sentry Myrmidon to figure out.



---> medium MJD
+ minimal tank
+ replace some of the guns with DLAs to get control range out to 100 km
+ train up sentries

and cos your flying a BC in level IVs ALWAYS jump 100km straight up or down immediately
and if they get close - jump another 100km further


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