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T2 Modules & ammo prices
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HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-11-09 17:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
Have noticed that T2 Module & ammo prices have gone through the floor.
Is this an unintended consequence of CCP's work on manufacturing or is CCP deliberately attempting to make items & ammo more affordable?
Has the associated cost of producing T2 modules & ammo become cheaper or has the increased competition simply driven prices down?
Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
Rumbaldi
Tannhauser C-Beam
Seker Academy
#2 - 2014-11-09 17:37:54 UTC
I think it is a down to increased competition becuase a lot more people are trying industry and the skills needed to actually do industry at a higher level has been lowered.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-11-10 10:48:14 UTC
Margins are trashed by the invention change. It used to be that if you were doing module or ammo invention, you would unavoidably have downtime as the invention jobs were fairly short - now you can invent multiples in a row, setting up the invention job length to match your play schedule.

So any serious module/ammo inventor just increased their throughput quite a bit. Since demand didn't really change... prices go down.
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-11-10 16:09:18 UTC
With the changes to industry also came a drastic reduction in the time to build ammo (they halved the time). This resulted in a flood of T2 ammo that won't go away.

Margins are **** now for all T2, and sadly, sales volume hasn't increased any. Though they made industry easier and more user friendly, they made it a less likely place to earn your billions. It's easier to run incursions than to get rich on manufacturing T2 goods.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2014-11-10 18:34:45 UTC
Although I'm still earning some ISK from manufacturing, my production volume has fallen-off dramatically.

I'm beginning to think I'll have to get more involved in station trading (ick) for ISK earning.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#6 - 2014-11-10 19:36:00 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
now you can invent multiples in a row, setting up the invention job length to match your play schedule.
So any serious module/ammo inventor just increased their throughput quite a bit. Since demand didn't really change... prices go down.
I think the decreasing margins has to do with the unlimited slots, POS changes and UI improvements and the barriers to entry they removed. The impact of multiple inventions is just going to make the margins even smaller. Now that IPH is back, people can quickly find the profitable item and the margin moves down in a few days.

I've decided to give up on the goal I've been working on since before Crius of making xx Billion from industry. I've got my toons trained and a nice stockpile of researched BPO's, invented copies and mats but realized it's just too much work for the isk payoff and amount of fun involved.

So I'm going to leave it to the players better at it than me and just invent stuff for myself on the side. The advantage of giving up industry is that it will allow me to go back to my vagabond ways of moving around the universe periodically.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#7 - 2014-11-11 00:07:17 UTC
The reason why the margins on T2 ammo were good was because it used to take 2 weeks to produced 50,000 rounds of ammo. This was the main cost associated with T2 ammo, the time it tied up your assembly line. Now it takes a day to build. So each person producing T2 ammo, can manufacture 14x as much ammo, or produce other things for 13 days and still see the same production.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Amseln deBrabant
Ochsenbruegger
#8 - 2014-11-11 07:44:56 UTC
As iam now able to produce 2 to 3 times the volume i used to produce before, I am able to cut my margin by 1/2 to 1/3 of what it used to be. As i was satisfied with margins before, i might even go further. So price drops of up to 50% (depending on margins before, which were quite high in some cases) will still be acceptable for me, before i need to thing to go out of business producing t2 modules.

Happy to bring all this new product to you podheads so you can destroy each other with much lower cost ;)

ah and to all that speculators...the price drop is not over...
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#9 - 2014-11-11 16:27:33 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Although I'm still earning some ISK from manufacturing, my production volume has fallen-off dramatically.

I'm beginning to think I'll have to get more involved in station trading (ick) for ISK earning.


If Tau is saying this you know CCP have cacked up the market with their unnecessary changes. Best you can do really is sell your stuff where other people aren't selling it. Then you can try and keep your prices a little higher.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Agnes Stix
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-11-12 15:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Agnes Stix
I think most dedicated T2 manufacturers have been cutting their losses and gtfo fast as possible. I know people who were more cynical (smarter) than me who sold of their indy characters before Crius became common knowledge.

I have now also cut my losses, packed up my stuff and this account (my indy account) will be unsubbed in a few days.

We'll just have to wait and see what the final result will be for this.

I think what we are seeing now is very few dedicated t2 manufaturers left. The ones that are left probably don't PvP or actually use their isk for anything but t2 investment and produce vast amounts of t2 moduels (see the 1000+ t2 module sell orders nowadays) and newbros producing small amounts and then moving on to other things.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-11-12 18:25:20 UTC
I went out to build caps before Crius and missed a lot of the market adjustments from that time and after. I have now given up renting in deep null with Phoebe and have returned to T2 manufacturing to find that, while the process is so much better, the market is fairly bleak.

A lot of people are mentioning aspects that are on target. More people doing industry is a factor, with regard to ammo, the time reduction is likely the largest factor. However, while ammo, and T2 ammo has significantly reduced margins, ISK/hr is not so much affected because of the shorter build times, as one poster on this thread mentioned. And although ammo margins used to be insane, it never really was very good ISK/hr.

While there are still margins to be had, the money-making products are quite a bit less. Manufacturing used to be my bread and butter. I am considering making changes the way I earn ISK.
Agnes Stix
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-11-12 19:19:52 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
I went out to build caps before Crius and missed a lot of the market adjustments from that time and after. I have now given up renting in deep null with Phoebe and have returned to T2 manufacturing to find that, while the process is so much better, the market is fairly bleak.

A lot of people are mentioning aspects that are on target. More people doing industry is a factor, with regard to ammo, the time reduction is likely the largest factor. However, while ammo, and T2 ammo has significantly reduced margins, ISK/hr is not so much affected because of the shorter build times, as one poster on this thread mentioned. And although ammo margins used to be insane, it never really was very good ISK/hr.

While there are still margins to be had, the money-making products are quite a bit less. Manufacturing used to be my bread and butter. I am considering making changes the way I earn ISK.



Actually isk/h is much affected because you need to sell it as well and as 350125GO said sales volume hasn't increased any.

On top of that you now need several times more isk to invest. Meaning you have to wait until you have a much bigger stack of isk before you can use even a small amount of it.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#13 - 2014-11-12 19:46:03 UTC
T2 modules will recover some of their price drop once the meta enhanced copies are depleted.

The last patch took the meta option out of the research process and I haven't seen increases in datacores to suggest people are spamming copies yet.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#14 - 2014-11-13 15:44:01 UTC
Agnes Stix wrote:
Actually isk/h is much affected because you need to sell it as well and as 350125GO said sales volume hasn't increased any.

..and because the amount each player can produce has massively increased, the number of players that can be gainfully employed by T2 production has been massively reduced.
Sma Zakalwe
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-11-13 17:07:24 UTC
Yep - producing T2 missiles not really worth the candle now - time to adapt to something else.....
Agnes Stix
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-11-13 19:15:19 UTC
The market may survive but I suspect without many of us who took our profits from production and actually created PvP content and/or other active content with it.

New players might initially have an easier time getting in to T2 production but as you try to expand now only people who hoard their isk will benefit from these "revolutionary" changes, the ones who don't might as well start looking at other things right away.

Clearly this is the better system...CLEARLY Shocked
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#17 - 2014-11-13 23:52:07 UTC
Ocih wrote:
T2 modules will recover some of their price drop once the meta enhanced copies are depleted.

The last patch took the meta option out of the research process and I haven't seen increases in datacores to suggest people are spamming copies yet.



some of us have decades worth of copies in storage...

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-11-14 14:29:31 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
..and because the amount each player can produce has massively increased, the number of players that can be gainfully employed by T2 production has been massively reduced.


Yes. And god forbid you put more than 50k of any unit on the market and the fools rush to drop prices even further. T2 production seems to have become more of a novelty now than a career.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#19 - 2014-11-14 19:39:50 UTC
adriaans wrote:
Ocih wrote:
T2 modules will recover some of their price drop once the meta enhanced copies are depleted.

The last patch took the meta option out of the research process and I haven't seen increases in datacores to suggest people are spamming copies yet.



some of us have decades worth of copies in storage...


Decades worth based on current losses. That's another matter already mentioned in this thread.
Awesome MILF
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-11-14 22:53:00 UTC
350125GO wrote:
With the changes to industry also came a drastic reduction in the time to build ammo (they halved the time). This resulted in a flood of T2 ammo that won't go away.

Margins are **** now for all T2, and sadly, sales volume hasn't increased any. Though they made industry easier and more user friendly, they made it a less likely place to earn your billions. It's easier to run incursions than to get rich on manufacturing T2 goods.


This.

Manufacturing 50.000 heavy mjolnirs used to take 8 days, now it takes 15 hours. LMAO? Everyone and his dog can manufacture millions of them every week, whereas you need a whole year to waste those same missiles you have made in 15 hours. Absurd.

btw I have lost billions of potential profits cause I invested on this a year ago.
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