EVE General Discussion

Tanking ships is effective because if

[number of ships needed to gank you] > [number of pilots available]

they will look for someone they can gank with their numbers.

Sure, there needs to be balance. Having the choice to mine in a Hulk (more risk, more yield) or a Skiff (less risk, slightly less yield) is good game play (although personally I think the Skiff is a little too strong currently). If all mining ships were too strong for a single Catalyst to take, or alternatively too weak, there would no longer be any trade-offs to be made by the miner.

As I have said I am all for changes to give players more ways to fight back against criminals. However, making gankers jump through more NPC-enforced hoops is not going to change anything. Locking -10's out from stations will just force them to use neutral Orca's which can stay cloaked at safe spots and provides very little "points of weakness" at the cost of locking single account players from a ganking career, and raises a whole host of issues with players being locked out of parts of space which CCP has said is against the design intent of the game.

Maybe a deployable which gives gankers some advantage (20% faster GCC recovery? and protection from the faction police), but is costly and destroyable? Something else that they could use as a base (some special hidden pirate POS) but also could be tracked down and attacked? I am just throwing out random ideas off the top of my head, but whatever it is needs to have other players spend some effort in enforcing these anti-ganking mechanisms, not just more "consequences" that make a necessary part of the game more difficult.

Ships, especially overloaded and AFK ones, are suppose to blow up in this game. Gankers are the mechanism enforcing this risk, really the only completely unpredictable risk, to other players in highsec. This is the way it is suppose to be, so putting artificial hurdles, beyond those necessary to prevent those with massive resources from permanently shutting down highsec systems, is counter-productive to the design of this part of the game. We need this risk to keep things interesting - to keep people from always flying max yield/max cargo fits and AFKing their way to profit.

Yes, ideally there should be some some interesting gameplay around this game mechanic since ganking is PvP at its core and that is what Eve is about. But even if there was absolutely no way to get back at a ganker, ganking would still be a necessary reality of the competitive sandbox, especially since there are a multitude of ways to keep your ships near 100% safe from ganking in highsec. As CCP Falcon said, it is the player's job to protect their assets, and they have more than enough tools to do this.

Good guide:

http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2014/07/counter-ganking.html

The idea that gankers would create enough gank alts to overcome a 6 hour GCC timer is preposterous. They would quickly go broke. And anyhow, we could just make it 12 hours, or 18 hours, until the right balance is met, and the guys gotta go grind sec status to let them gank better. And that's the key, force gankers to spend time doing boring things between ganks. That makes ganking more boring, and forces them to hit high value targets instead of popping shuttles and pods for lolz. Like any law enforcement system, harsher punishments mean less crime.

Because their "activity" is just a demonstration that the criminal justice system is ineffective and broken. Like awoxxers their "activity" serves only to entertain themselves while irritating and frustrating most of the people in highsec, and encouraging risk aversion and boredom. Being able to operate at -10 in highsec isn't a profession, it's just a reflection of the fact that the current consequences for repeat ganking are insufficient to deter people from doing it...and much like awoxxing that means a lot of new/casual players getting blown up, getting frustrated, and quitting the game. It also means that professions like hauling and mining get more dangerous for casual players, discouraging them from engaging in those activities, and letting the ISBoxoer/botter fleets take over. This is good for Eve how?

Go read the CSM minutes. The overwhelming consensus is that awoxxing is making the game more boring, by encouraging risk adverseness and solo play among highsec players, leading to poor retention numbers. The same applies to the -10 suicide ganking gangs, by making hauling, an already boring activity, dangerous and potentially unprofitable, it encourages people to not do it, and raises prices throughout highsec, to the detriment of casual players. It's fun for a few gankers, and miserable for everyone else.

The numbers out of Uedama don't lie, nor does the number of blown up freighters/JFs. It's way up, Red Frog raised their prices, and the frustration is mounting. Not to mention that the gankers are doing this all without facing any real consequences to discourage them from continuing - at this rate it could continue indefinitely. CCP has not released new ganking/freighter destruction numbers post this crazy campaign...but the 1 trillion + isk in damage by CODE last month, almost all in highsec, is essentially unprecedented in Eve history.

It's the fault of the players that gankers aren't stopped when they have tools to fight back. It wouldn't be so trivial to gank if there were people (who don't suck) trying to stop it.

And no one cares about losing a Rifter in FW. It's not about the price of the ship, it's about the risk of being killed by another player. No one likes dying at the hands of others.

Not true. I saw warp-ins fail because the freighter was still being bumped too fast, resulting in gankers being out of range and being picked off before the gank started. I was talking about ganks at gates anyways though. Those thrasher gankers that go for autopiloters can be picked off the moment they land by anti-gankers, well before they get a chance to cycle their guns for the pod and perhaps before even killing the shuttle. Once again it's a failure on the part of players that this doesn't happen considering these autopilot gankers are in the same 3-4 systems each day.

And that grinding was a bad game mechanic, which is why they changed it. It's not significant if used eventually, it is significant if used constantly. I find that makes the feature rather balanced.

Of course if I move my gank stuff I use a triple bulkhead fit don't autopilot and have a scout who actually checks out the systems. Now how unfair is that, my stuff is almost invincible. We should call CCP and ask them to nerf something.

Well.... Dock is the simplest thing to do actually.

Let's say Facpo no more attacks you. Ok. Then you can spend your time between attacks in space with danger to be scaned and hunted by players. Or you can spend this time sitting docked and safe. Actually i don't see any reasons to prefer space in this case.


Me too. But when you use dedicated alt to do ganking you don't need many options i guess. You have them on your main alts.

Miners sit in belts for hours on end!!! Put a few in warships and let them defend their brothers and themselves. Why is it that high sec miners always need somebody else to solve their problems?

In BRAVE we have a mining/industry corporation that get as many kills as our "elite" pvp coprs. Just by defending themselves.

And so can the high sec miners. It takes effort indeed.