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Flagged for solo
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Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-11-06 13:21:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I understand the nature of EVE better than most. However, I have thought of something that might improve the solo pvp environment in a limited capacity. I call it flagging for solo. Instead of flagging for PVP, like themepark games, you flag for solo. How would this work to improve solo PVP content while staying true to the nature of EVE without being exploitable? Well, I've given it some thought, but naturally I can't think of everything myself, so I'm opening this up to some brainstorming. Here's how it would work.

1. The first thing flagging yourself for solo PVP makes you is unable to be in a fleet. To flag yourself for solo PVP, if you are in a fleet, you must leave it.

2. When flagged for solo PVP, you are only able to lock one target at a time, and you will only be able to be locked by one target at a time. Essentially, being locked by something makes you unlockable by anything else. Now you might be thinking, what if a friend locks you to prevent an opponent from locking you? Well, it doesn't work that way because if an opponent can't lock you, they can't shoot you, and as a result, there would be no legal way for you to shoot the guy you're trying to kill by doing this. (I just realised why this won't work so well in low or nullsec, but I'll think of a fix). This, however, can also be adjustable. If you wish, as a solo pvp'er, if you are looking for a challenge, you can set the number of targets capable of locking you to more than one, and you'll be able to lock the same number of targets.

3. When flagged for solo PVP, you essentially automatically consent to duels without the need for a duel invite. Someone only need lock you up and start shooting, and can do so without being concorded. Ie, it'll be like being flagged GCC but you won't be GCC. So it would work in highsec as well but, you wouldn't be able to shoot someone that wasn't flagged themselves until they started shooting you.

There were a few other rules I was going to lay down here but I've been drinking and forgot them. If I remember, I'll update. Please feel free to contribute thoughts to the above rules, or suggest your own, I'd really like to have a discussion about this. Basically, what I want out of this is to be able to give a bit more power to the solo pvp'er, especially against multiboxers and blobs. I'm always keen on a good fight, even when I'm outnumbered and outgunned I'll still give it a go most of the time, and don't get me wrong, I've been blobbed and been in blobs plenty of times as well, and I don't want to nerf that at all, so please, I don't want anyone thinking this is a bitter 'nerf multiboxing/blobbing' thread. I'm genuinely trying to think of ways to make solo PVP more viable - to give the individual pilot more of an opportunity to more confidently test him- or herself.



"you are only able to lock one target at a time"

So, if you are fighting someone with drones you can't point him AND killing his drones..

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-11-06 13:57:42 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
sorry remi -1 from me, it would prevent awesome stuff like this happening.


Don't apologise, I agree. It was just something I was hoping to flesh out with some of the less angsty people on the forums, like yourself and Shah. Given the nature of the forums, I was fortunate to get Shah's constructive thoughts at all, I really wasn't expecting anything other than "you're bad, lrn2pvp" and such. You know me well enough to know I'm for anything that improves the PVP aspect of the game without breaking the sandbox aspect.

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Rumbaldi
Lucifer's Hammer Holdings
#23 - 2014-11-06 14:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rumbaldi
Remiel Pollard wrote:
By virtue of being flagged for solo, you'll only be lockable by as many people as you want to be able to lock, so you can set it to just one if you want. Although, I do see the problem of having a friend on gatecamps, having you locked while you're flagged, and someone jumping in being unable to lock you up. They wouldn't even have to be in a fleet for this. It's a flaw with my idea, for sure.


But then in low/null sec you could set off on a roam with say 30 ships, sure you wouldnt be in the same fleet but that is not such a big deal, you would set yourself to solo flagged allowing only 1 target to lock you, then as you all jump a gate and there is a gate camp, it would be chaos for the other ships to lock you, as it will be like musical chairs on who gets locked by whom.

I do like the sound of the idea though in principal. not sure about the automatically accept duels though as that would be abused I think on stations I think.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#24 - 2014-11-06 14:30:44 UTC
Rumbaldi wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
By virtue of being flagged for solo, you'll only be lockable by as many people as you want to be able to lock, so you can set it to just one if you want. Although, I do see the problem of having a friend on gatecamps, having you locked while you're flagged, and someone jumping in being unable to lock you up. They wouldn't even have to be in a fleet for this. It's a flaw with my idea, for sure.


But then in low/null sec you could set off on a roam with say 30 ships, sure you wouldnt be in the same fleet but that is not such a big deal, you would set yourself to solo flagged allowing only 1 target to lock you, then as you all jump a gate and there is a gate camp, it would be chaos for the other ships to lock you, as it will be like musical chairs on who gets locked by whom.

I do like the sound of the idea though in principal. not sure about the automatically accept duels though as that would be abused I think on stations I think.



Now if the Gatecamp is all solo flagged, too, things start getting really interesting!


All in all, nice idea trying to make solo a bit more viable, but i think you can see how fast any mechanics geared towards solo in an MMO environment that isn't instanced are totally breaking the game.
As such, if you want to solo, you have to trust your skills and have the guts.
This includes choosing the right setup to fly solo, the skill with D-Scanning, the skill with actually fighting, as well as the 'social'
skills to know your enemies and make predictions.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#25 - 2014-11-06 14:59:46 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
-snip-


EVE is a game that does not cater to 'that's not fair' kiddos. If you're solo PVPing and then guess what? The guy with more than one buddy has an advantage over you. That guy shouldn't be punished for making the obvious escalation. If anything you should suffer the consequence for being so stupid, and you probably have.

And before you accuse me of being a blob warrior you should check my corp's member count. Blink

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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#26 - 2014-11-06 15:08:28 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

My point is that this whole idea is flawed to the core.


Why is this terrible? With this, I could flag for solo, lock a buddy and travel through any gate camp risk-free.

Trade runs just got a whole lot easier.

/sarcasm off, -1 OP
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#27 - 2014-11-06 16:13:25 UTC
fuckery, backstabbing and unfair play are part of eve and still part of the sandbox.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

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Iain Cariaba
#28 - 2014-11-06 16:47:37 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:

My point is that this whole idea is flawed to the core.


Why is this terrible? With this, I could flag for solo, lock a buddy and travel through any gate camp risk-free.

Trade runs just got a whole lot easier.

/sarcasm off, -1 OP

This ↑↑.

This idea would spell the end of suicide ganking. Flag yourself and alt each solo, lock each other, boom, instant protection from suicide ganking. AFK mine to your heart's content. Turn on sound for the gate jump effect, and just listen for it and lock your alt to autopilot straight through every gate camp.

Going to have to give this a -1, and I don't really see how you could possibly salvage this into a good idea.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#29 - 2014-11-06 16:53:39 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:

Why is this terrible? With this, I could flag for solo, lock a buddy and travel through any gate camp risk-free.

Trade runs just got a whole lot easier.


You people seriously terrify me. All I thought about after reading OP was how would I shoot target's drones if I only could target his ship (which I need to do to keep tackle on him). But this... this is frakking emergent gameplay at work, man. Also a proof how awesome Eve is :)

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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#30 - 2014-11-06 17:15:44 UTC
If you want a good 1v1 fight, find a sparring partner and square off alone in some low-traffic system. Problem solved.

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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#31 - 2014-11-06 18:42:58 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I understand the nature of EVE better than most.

Based on what I just read, I don't think that's true.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-11-06 19:22:39 UTC
As per what others say, the only way this could work is to update the duel system to remote assistance zero. Duels are by concord so they could expect a fairish fight?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-11-06 19:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
Nope. The potential to be outnumbered 5 to 1 is an essential part of roaming PvP. It would also be tricky for group situations, for example you could show up and lock just the logi or some other weak support ship and eat it away while the fleet watches helplessly.

For 1v1 combat I'd like to see the duel system revamped to make losing your ship less likely (i.e. the duel ends and weapon cycles end once armor is gone, unless the alpha destroys the ship). Sure, this may not be in the spirit of EVE entirely, but it's a small way to encourage PvP.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#34 - 2014-11-06 20:43:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I understand the nature of EVE better than most.

Wow - hubris
Remiel Pollard wrote:
...I've been drinking...

Completely explains....


Remiel Pollard wrote:

1. The first thing flagging yourself for solo PVP makes you is unable to be in a fleet. To flag yourself for solo PVP, if you are in a fleet, you must leave it.

2. When flagged for solo PVP, you are only able to lock one target at a time, and you will only be able to be locked by one target at a time. Essentially, being locked by something makes you unlockable by anything else. Now you might be thinking, what if a friend locks you to prevent an opponent from locking you? Well, it doesn't work that way because if an opponent can't lock you, they can't shoot you, and as a result, there would be no legal way for you to shoot the guy you're trying to kill by doing this. (I just realised why this won't work so well in low or nullsec, but I'll think of a fix). This, however, can also be adjustable. If you wish, as a solo pvp'er, if you are looking for a challenge, you can set the number of targets capable of locking you to more than one, and you'll be able to lock the same number of targets.

3. When flagged for solo PVP, you essentially automatically consent to duels without the need for a duel invite. Someone only need lock you up and start shooting, and can do so without being concorded. Ie, it'll be like being flagged GCC but you won't be GCC. So it would work in highsec as well but, you wouldn't be able to shoot someone that wasn't flagged themselves until they started shooting you.

There were a few other rules I was going to lay down here but I've been drinking and forgot them. If I remember, I'll update. Please feel free to contribute thoughts to the above rules, or suggest your own, I'd really like to have a discussion about this. Basically, what I want out of this is to be able to give a bit more power to the solo pvp'er, especially against multiboxers and blobs. I'm always keen on a good fight, even when I'm outnumbered and outgunned I'll still give it a go most of the time, and don't get me wrong, I've been blobbed and been in blobs plenty of times as well, and I don't want to nerf that at all, so please, I don't want anyone thinking this is a bitter 'nerf multiboxing/blobbing' thread. I'm genuinely trying to think of ways to make solo PVP more viable - to give the individual pilot more of an opportunity to more confidently test him- or herself.

This is a "dojo"-less arena-like idea. Which, on principle, I disagree with. But with said taking a look at only the feature proposal itself there are several issues that will cause this idea to fail outright.

Smartbombing "neutral" ships will successfully deal damage to one of the solo PvPers to the benefit of the other. These can be assembled at convenient "suicide" prices of less than 2m a pop.
Still doesn't address neutral logi as they can (and will) go GCC to tamper with things
Won't really work in low/null/wspace as you correctly alluded to
Could be used to tamper/alter actual fleet engagements (you have your "solo pvp flag" set to 1 and your spai-alt in opposing fleet does also - you lock each other up and voila no one else can lock you...)

I'm right behind you
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-11-06 23:38:36 UTC
A downside I see with this idea is that most people will just look for ways to abuse it, no matter how carefully it's thought out.

Like suspects and duelists at trade hubs, using logi or smartass reships.

At the end of the day, the best way to get 'unabused' 1v1s is simply to find other players that enjoy fighting solo (with or without links, depending whether you use them yourself). It's all in the metagame: no game mechanic will ever be better than the honest will of people to engage in challenging fights, instead of boring blobfests.

Unless you go all the way with the dojo idea, with 2 people warped to a 'secret location' in identical ships. Which, btw, many people would actually like (not me).

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