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Tech I variants outclassing Tech 2 Variants

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John Pz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-11-05 22:09:18 UTC
I am sure there are more cases of a Tech I variant outclassing a Tech II variant than the one i am presenting. I can understand if a Tech II variant only accels in 1 area over the Tech I counterparts, but for no reason should there be a Tech I model greater than or equal to the Tech II stats and none below. My example is a Energy Neutralizer, the Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I while it carries a greater price tag than the Small Energy Neutralizer II, that is the only downside, and that is not a stat that is simply supply and demand.

Here are the base stats in comparison: (Tech I/Tech II) Activation 45GJ / 45GJ, Structure HP 40/40, Powergrid 8MW / 9MW, CPU 8tf / 10tf, Activation time 6s / 6s, Energy Neutralized 54GJ / 54 GJ, Max Range 6300m / 6300m, Meta 4/5, volume 5/5.

2 of the Tech I variants stats are better than the Tech II, and in none of the stats are the Tech II stats better. Yet some how the Tech II variant still has a higher Meta level.

I sugguest that the Tech I stat(s) are deminished to compensate, or the Tech II variants' stats are improved.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-11-05 22:25:35 UTC
I believe CCP Fozzie has stated that fixing this sort of thing is one of the main goals of module tiericide.
Paranoid Loyd
#3 - 2014-11-05 22:28:00 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=306344&find=unread

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-11-06 03:49:44 UTC
you know some actually enjoy the right click show info in a fitting tool aspect of eve to make theory crafting a fun and exciting aspect of eve. Not just brain dead its a higher level gear so it must be good.


I recommend enjoying this aspect. You get some amazing fits under a tight fitting grid. And you get to bring eve where ever your are even not in game. Love neocom fitting secion on my IPAD personally. Theory craft during downtimes away from a real computer.

If fozzie changes this it will be a sad day imo. It one of its more fun aspects. The meta gear you use when you can't fit t2 can be reused and work just as good if not better when you can run t2. I happen to like that.
Tij Lamor
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-11-06 12:28:47 UTC
It's frustrating that loot competes with player industry. I believe that named modules should be created by adding optional components to the normal T1 build process and those components could drop as loot or salvage. Anything that is better than T2 should result from optional components added to the T2 build process and should require the same skills to fit as T2 modules. These components might be purchased from LP stores (instead of buying the modules/prints) or they could drop as loot. This way all modules entering the game would be player manufactured.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2014-11-06 13:35:22 UTC
Tij Lamor wrote:
It's frustrating that loot competes with player industry. I believe that named modules should be created by adding optional components to the normal T1 build process and those components could drop as loot or salvage. Anything that is better than T2 should result from optional components added to the T2 build process and should require the same skills to fit as T2 modules. These components might be purchased from LP stores (instead of buying the modules/prints) or they could drop as loot. This way all modules entering the game would be player manufactured.



yeah but with the last few things added to the game CCP seems to be leading more in the direction of loot rather than player built like the new polarized guns

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Leyete Wulf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-11-06 13:44:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tij Lamor wrote:
It's frustrating that loot competes with player industry. I believe that named modules should be created by adding optional components to the normal T1 build process and those components could drop as loot or salvage. Anything that is better than T2 should result from optional components added to the T2 build process and should require the same skills to fit as T2 modules. These components might be purchased from LP stores (instead of buying the modules/prints) or they could drop as loot. This way all modules entering the game would be player manufactured.



yeah but with the last few things added to the game CCP seems to be leading more in the direction of loot rather than player built like the new polarized guns



Actually, if you read the CSM9 minutes you'll find a brief (like 3 lines) discussion in which it is suggested that CCP might consider making meta 'named' modules manufacturable in some fashion. Obviously this would require a substantial refactoring of the existing loot mechanics and could potentially really mess with the markets (especially for mission runners, site runners, and ratters).
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-11-06 13:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
I believe CCP Fozzie has stated that fixing this sort of thing is one of the main goals of module tiericide.

^^ Confirming this.

Leyete Wulf wrote:

Actually, if you read the CSM9 minutes you'll find a brief (like 3 lines) discussion in which it is suggested that CCP might consider making meta 'named' modules manufacturable in some fashion. Obviously this would require a substantial refactoring of the existing loot mechanics and could potentially really mess with the markets (especially for mission runners, site runners, and ratters).

Yup. It's the direction we want to go but we're not going to be able to jump right to the end quite yet.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

yeah but with the last few things added to the game CCP seems to be leading more in the direction of loot rather than player built like the new polarized guns

Quite the opposite. The blueprints for the polarized weapons drop, not the weapons themselves. Building the polarized weapons also requires a built T2 item as an input, which ensures that they don't cannibalize any part of the T2 manufacturing process.

We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-11-06 14:04:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...
We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


A dream to some...A NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!...'

Oops sorry, brief Excalibur moment there...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2014-11-06 14:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


More stuff to mess up and get things wrong with patches. Well, on the bright side of things, CCP maybe can make more use or use at all of the BugHunters. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2014-11-06 15:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
@ Fozzie

I am not sure of the rest of the player base but I would like to see the following for the Module Tiericide:

http://imgur.com/LoJsJW5

Essentially the Meta items have a more effective primary stat than T2, but their other stats are worse than T1.

Example: Better tracking than T2 but worse range, ROF, etc than T1.

Edit: here is a clearer graph: http://imgur.com/xHUMcN5
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2014-11-06 15:58:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
I believe CCP Fozzie has stated that fixing this sort of thing is one of the main goals of module tiericide.

^^ Confirming this.


We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


What about station upgrades and station platforms :(
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#13 - 2014-11-06 16:05:54 UTC
in some cases its something that needs fixing for sure ..
but now they have made the T2 LML so much better at everything bar fitting which is just silly .. the metas need too be better at stuff than T2 in the area they specialize or whats the point?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2014-11-06 16:25:24 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
in some cases its something that needs fixing for sure ..
but now they have made the T2 LML so much better at everything bar fitting which is just silly .. the metas need too be better at stuff than T2 in the area they specialize or whats the point?


TheMercenaryKing wrote:

@ Fozzie

I am not sure of the rest of the player base but I would like to see the following for the Module Tiericide:

http://imgur.com/LoJsJW5

Essentially the Meta items have a more effective primary stat than T2, but their other stats are worse than T1.

Example: Better tracking than T2 but worse range, ROF, etc than T1.

Edit: here is a clearer graph: http://imgur.com/xHUMcN5


Like my graphs where T1, T2, and Meta are viable. Metas excel in one are but are sub par in the others, T1 are all around OK, and T2 are generally better with increased costs.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#15 - 2014-11-06 16:37:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


Everything? Skillbooks? Blueprint originals? Agents? Asteroid belts? Moons? Planets? Stars?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2014-11-06 16:48:39 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


Everything? Skillbooks? Blueprint originals? Agents? Asteroid belts? Moons? Planets? Stars?


We demand Dyson-spheres
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-11-06 17:20:09 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


Everything? Skillbooks? Blueprint originals? Agents? Asteroid belts? Moons? Planets? Stars?


We demand Dyson-spheres

Screw Dyson-spheres. I want booze.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-11-06 20:16:37 UTC
Meta module prices are determined mostly by supply and demand, T2 prices have a minimum due to the cost of manufacturing. So Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I are slightly better than the T2 variant (smaller sig radius penalty), AND cheaper than the T2.

Either tweak meta drop rates to make them more expensive or (preferred) buff these T2 modules.
Kesthely
Mestana
#19 - 2014-11-06 20:20:17 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We're slowly but surely moving closer and closer to the dream of having everything in EVE be player built.


Everything? Skillbooks? Blueprint originals? Agents? Asteroid belts? Moons? Planets? Stars?



I think building agents would make the game a PG18+ game ;)
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-11-07 04:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Jur Tissant wrote:
Either tweak meta drop rates to make them more expensive or (preferred) buff these T2 modules.




Latter is power creep.


Former has been done and did not shut the t2 must be better crowd up. In the past some fotm modules used to demand a much prettier penny for the meta buys. And still we got the peeps too narrow minded and deadset on t2 (or too lazy to research this stuff) complaining. Dig up the old archived forums to verify if motivated to, don't take my word for it lol.
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