These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Bring SP remapping to Eve (twist on the origional idea)

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-10-30 21:38:00 UTC
Absolute no for all the previously stated reasons. There is no twist here, the idea has been proposed before and argued down (on several occasions). As soon as you bring in one change on the SP system there would be endless calls for more.

You made your choices and you live with them. Allowing people any method whatsoever to place reclaimed SP (no matter what the restricted %) into any FOTM skillset would just be bad in every way.
Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-11-06 00:16:27 UTC
The only idea I'd support in some way related to re-assigning SP is the ability to 'untrain' a skill at the same rate you trained it, with the same attributes it took to train it applying, and with a ban on unwinding prerequisite skills. This lets people 'pare down' into cheaper clones if they don't want some SP they've got, but is neither quick nor does it placate the FOTM crowd or any other such fickleness.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#23 - 2014-11-06 01:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
The only idea I'd support in some way related to re-assigning SP is the ability to 'untrain' a skill at the same rate you trained it, with the same attributes it took to train it applying, and with a ban on unwinding prerequisite skills. This lets people 'pare down' into cheaper clones if they don't want some SP they've got, but is neither quick nor does it placate the FOTM crowd or any other such fickleness.


it may just be quicker to pod yourself multiple times.

but then you dont chose the skill...derp.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-11-06 05:03:57 UTC
it's the third SP reallocation thread within 24 hours. Can't you people use the search function?

Here's the standard Tippia's copypasta for you.

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

And yes, I vaguely remember that this particular idea has been suggested before with slightly different numbers. Your 20% SP loss is close to the advantage you get for optimising the attributes and training skills with those, then remapping so you just removed the need for more than 2 attribute enhancer implants.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#25 - 2014-11-06 05:10:42 UTC
Keras Authion wrote:
it's the third SP reallocation thread within 24 hours. Can't you people use the search function?

Here's the standard Tippia's copypasta for you.

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

And yes, I vaguely remember that this particular idea has been suggested before with slightly different numbers. Your 20% SP loss is close to the advantage you get for optimising the attributes and training skills with those, then remapping so you just removed the need for more than 2 attribute enhancer implants.

Removal of the implants is a good thing. Every argument related to learning skills related to attribute implants and any sink involved with implants can & would be replaced by use of implant sets that add actual effects or ship loss.

However everything else yes.

As for the five year character needing to train FOTM.... five years you should have every FOTM already thus be unaffected by balance changes. Or just don't train FOTM and you don't have that issue anyway.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2014-11-06 06:49:28 UTC
test tube bunny wrote:


Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
please name one reason for this


Simple, the game changes and so do people. I've played this game for half a decade and my character doesn't reflect who I am now. Who started mining and doesn't mine anymore? Any of you guys try out invention and found it to be a waste of your time? Did you you try nullsec's huge fleets, and trained for a capital to find it mind numbing and now fly in smaller fleets with some other group?

This is a solution to how the game evolves and how individuals evolve within the game.


The game and people evolving is not an issue, and doesn't need a solution.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#27 - 2014-11-07 09:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Against because you can missuse this "feature".

Just put in two +5 imps of your choice and remap so you get most SP/hour on a random bunch of skills. Train all of them to 5, then apply the "Skillpoint remapping" to move the SP to the correct area.

-> fastest way to learn without remapping the stats (where you only have 1 per year....)

-1 for this idea
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-11-07 09:25:31 UTC
test tube bunny wrote:
I know people already ran over this idea a dozen times, but hear me out, because CCPs changes to dust 514's up coming changes suggested an idea that maybe reasonably accepted by the community:

Key Points:
  • Use Aurum (aquired via RL cash or Plex) to convert used SP into unallocated SP.
  • Release SP per skill rather then a whole characters SP inventory.
  • Lose 20% of the SP you reallocate.
  • Cost in Aurum based on total number of SP in that skill.
  • Removal of skill from inventory.


So basic break down:
Allow individuals to target individual skills they do not want, whether it be after buying a character or simply a change in play style. Once the Aurum is paid the SP is released from the skill, the skill is lost (you would need to buy the book if you retain it), and 80% of the total SP is sent to unallocated SP.

Game Breaking?
  • Users would have to accept significant SP losses, and while this isn't an issue in skills completely unwanted/unused it is a serious issue for those simply doing massive remaps of characters SP.
  • Fixes the issue with rich people constantly remapping when ever they want with no consequence.
  • More expensive, the more time put into a skill, and the more advanced that skill is. (Diminishing returns).
  • Aurum cost could be reasonably cheap because of it's by skill method, cost of a few skills would be cheap, while significant costs for massive overhaul of a high SP character.
  • Add an additional SP sink outside of losing a pod with improper med clone.
  • Dynamic change to the character market, that will continue to effect it.


Summary:
Players who are RL rich could not endlessly remap SP without losing massive quantities. The system is usable by members of all levels and RL wealth, and scales with the age (SP quantity) of the characters in eve. Yes is provides another profit point for CCP, but while allowing the players to greatly adapt to personal and game changes as the years go on.


No deal with the skills you decide to skill.

-1
Miromme Echerie
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-11-07 12:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Miromme Echerie
test tube bunny wrote:
Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
Nothing should cost Aurum, ISK, PLEX, whatever that actually affects the game - that's called Pay to Win and it fundamentally unbalances games with hugely negative consequences. We all log on to have an equal shot at things, and it's frankly great that most peoples' attempts to Pay to Win end up on TMC's ALODs.

On top of that, please name one reason for this other than "I want this" or "I want to undo an error I committed", or a core gameplay issue that this would fix for everyone. There's one of these threads nearly every week, and they're all shot down with good reason. I'm against any change that reduces the impact of choices you make.



This is in no way "Pay to win"...
  • It's accessible to all of the player base.
  • It has built in restrictions that keep people from farming the ability over and over without consequence.
  • Is does not give "game breaking" abilities in the game.
  • Eve isn't an "equal chance", and you don't login with a fair chance.
  • ISK is purely there to give you things that effect the game! Characters being bought, ships, implants, everything!


You are nieve to think nothing should be tied to micro transactions, when they are already here and in the game. You might as well of came here and complained about Plexes or cash being required in the transfer of characters after a sale.

Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
please name one reason for this


Simple, the game changes and so do people. I've played this game for half a decade and my character doesn't reflect who I am now. Who started mining and doesn't mine anymore? Any of you guys try out invention and found it to be a waste of your time? Did you you try nullsec's huge fleets, and trained for a capital to find it mind numbing and now fly in smaller fleets with some other group?

This is a solution to how the game evolves and how individuals evolve within the game.

It actually is kinda P2W. What's stopping me from paying $600 for plex, selling them and then buying a great character and then spending a bit more to specialize it into pretty much anything I want? Instant Titan armies.
On the other hand, CCP plz. This idea is great and I don't like my mining sp.
On the 3rd hand, not having it fits with the your choices have consequences theme.
On my final hand, what if it was ISK instead of plex or aur?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#30 - 2014-11-07 12:11:55 UTC
Choices have consequences don't try to pay your way out of them

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#31 - 2014-11-07 12:12:41 UTC
nope.
I maybe would support SP remap, at heavy loss of SP only. Lets say 10% of al SP, you want to invest, being available for remap.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#32 - 2014-11-07 15:17:43 UTC
Not supported. -1

The skill system is fine as it is.
Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-11-07 15:59:40 UTC
Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
The only idea I'd support in some way related to re-assigning SP is the ability to 'untrain' a skill at the same rate you trained it, with the same attributes it took to train it applying, and with a ban on unwinding prerequisite skills. This lets people 'pare down' into cheaper clones if they don't want some SP they've got, but is neither quick nor does it placate the FOTM crowd or any other such fickleness.


GG CCP this is now just a flat no.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#34 - 2014-11-07 16:23:58 UTC
Keras Authion wrote:
it's the third SP reallocation thread within 24 hours. Can't you people use the search function?
With all due respect, it is indeed getting a bit tiresome from CCL's perspective.

Thread locked.

The Rules:
17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Previous page12