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Phoebe Issues

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Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#201 - 2014-11-05 08:28:29 UTC
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Mara Kell wrote:


I stopped looking for bugs on singularity some time ago when i realized that feedback in the singularity forum isnt taken into account at all :\

Btw this issues has been reported allready in the test server forums when i remember correctly.


I disagree with feedback on Singularity not being taken into account because I changed multiple things based on feedback there (adding the % to the delta icon, adding the counter of market orders used and available). I also made the edits larger but apparently not large enough. But that will be fixed tomorrow (as stated multiple times).

It does not mean though that we will implement everything the players are asking for after having tried out features on Singularity, sometimes what they're asking for isn't feasible and sometimes we just don't agree. But most things are taken into account.

Maybe you are one of the few good apples....but the batch is still rotten. I stopped trying to give meaningful SiSi feedback after several different teams of devs blatently said "we don't believe you" some time ago for various releases. And this was after the Incarna-gate and the renewed 'communication' and customer focus drive from the mouth of the CEO.

And all the things that get mentioned on the SiSi feedback forum way in advance of the patch, yet somehow make it to TQ in the same defunct state they had been on SiSi the whole time. With never so much a single dev response to them. But asked a much repeated question or make a silly gesture at a dev...and POW, there they are to respond to the ridiculous crap...yet they continue to ignore any real serious question/issue. And then when a dev does respond, its "well, i don't know because thats not my team..." (then why don't you tell the team whose problem it is? naaaa )

That is why alot of us stopped caring about feedback. Afterall, CCP decided that 'imbedded QA' would help them create a better product....yet somehow none of them think to check the feedback threads related to their teams project. No its not a 'job requirement', but it is being a responsible QA person...atleast check it once a week...


Completely agree. I stopped giving feedback on the test server years ago, as it was generally pointless.

Yeah, they may change a couple of little things (adding the % to the delta icon, adding the counter of market orders used and available), but anything that shows their plan to be total garbage is completely ignored.

Despite all the feedback, said garbage is then introduced to TQ anyway, resulting in months of "iterations" to get it in a halfway useable state (unified inventory). “Features” are then left half-finished (tooltip fiasco still awaiting split delay sliders for different types of tooltips – promised 4 months ago) and left to fester away while they go off and break something else.

CCP never respond to people pointing this out, and I expect nothing different this time.

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#202 - 2014-11-05 08:34:27 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:

- I think the new release cycle is awesome. Never has EvE had so much PROBLEMS in such a short time.


Fixed that for you.......

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
Umbari Kado
THE RABID RABBITS
#203 - 2014-11-05 09:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Umbari Kado
I already mentioned that - but just for the record:

Drones are ignored in Overview...When a drone is selected in Overview - the Selected Items window defaults to the last selected ship other than the drone. I checked the Overview settings - nothing there which would indicate that sort of behaviour.
Also - drone buttons are missing in Selected Items.

Edit: the navigation buttons are also missing when a planet is selected...that works wonders when one tries to get the pod to safety...now I am REALLY unhappy. Hopefully this will get fixed.

So - it is a bug.

Anyone else ?
Haitekk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2014-11-05 09:43:12 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Following up on this, does anyone see a problem with just stripping reports as a required material for copying Construction Component Blueprints and Advanced Capital Construction Component Blueprints? (Note that this does NOT include Capital Construction Component Blueprints, which anyway don't require them.)

Obviously the requirements are too high right now, but when we started asking "why are they there at all?", we couldn't see a significant justification for them, and given that they're sold by NPCs for less than 30 ISK a unit, it doesn't seem like a significant impact on costs either way. This fix would roll out on Thursday unless there are major objections.


' it doesn't seem like a significant impact on costs either way'

Beside some reports, there are also Data Sheets (different name, but similar stuff - sold by NPC's for small price, and also 1m3) which are required for copying rigs blueprints (and some other blueprints, too) needed for invention of T2 rigs.

If i understood correctly, CCP's intention was to incite industry in null sec. With change to requirements for Data Sheets and Reports you are adding quite a lot of extra material which is only available from NPC's sellers, thus it is required to be shipped to Null sec regions, and with Phoebe and recent changes to Jump fuel requirements, you made process of shipping goods to Null sec more expensive and more time consuming.

So, now instead of 10 000 of Data Sheets, i would require 300 000 Data Sheets, which almost a full freighter load - and if i'm to produce small or medium T2 rigs, which are often used in PVP fits, it will impact significantly their price, almost to the point where it will be significantly cheaper to just buy finished rigs in Jita and ship them to null sec.

That does significantly impact the costs, and it is directly opposite of inciting industry in null sec.
thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
#205 - 2014-11-05 09:55:02 UTC
Umbari Kado wrote:
OK, so it seems that many people are reporting the same thing, and some fixes are (?) on the way.

So - message to everyone:
CHILL OUT, AND LET CCP FIX WHAT CAN BE FIXED.

Now - message to CCP:
I do a lot of programming myself so I appreciate the difficulties involved in tweaking something w/o side effects...and I am not going to bash anyone for things which might not happen if QA worked a bit better (on longer release schedule maybe ?)

But one thing is absolutely clear to me: CCP needs to understand who plays this (quite wonderful) game.
This game would be very playable and enjoyable with wireframe ships in the screen (ok, that is a bit of exaggeration, but not much).
People who play it NEED functionality, reliability, ability to plan and schedule.
For the most part they DON'T NEED bells and whistles, shiny toys and some such.
And I don't think that they need the current release schedule which messes up a very significant portion of game time.
It looks that by the time we have major issues from a new release fixed - a new release is on the way and the cycle repeats.

Please look at this critically - you don't want to kill the game...I would think...

And - for God's sake - please give us the ability to switch off completely (w/o side effects like slowing down the interface) the COMPASS...it has no functionality, and it seems to slow down the interface quite a lot.


The problem for people like you and me is that CCP and the bulk of game developers(even turn based strategy games)
think(or their marketing department more likely) that graphics is the "I win " button

So many games nowadays are released as new or updated when in reality all that is done is taking an old game
engine from the 70's and adding a little shiny graphics on top. Often they add some new and welcome additions
but cover them up in so much graphic fluff that it ends up being overall poorer than the old game they copied.

Eve being in its nature a bastard lovechild with both strategy and slight FPS type gameplay mixed have some
serious UI issues due to this, mainly that players who see it as strategy want functionality above all else
graphics can go take a hike, while the ones that play it more on the FPS style tends to anjoy some eye candy
to go with the functionality.

Eve developers on the other hand appears to be in the hands of a marketing/art department that has little to
no understanding of the words function before form. There are things like the font sizes that people have been
complaining about since beta and which still remain for no other reason than that it would make windows
look fugly if they allowed us to increase them to much(they even removed an old cludge fix where you
could manually replace the fonts used)

So i guess i will just add my voice to yours and say CCP please allow us at least some influence on the ratio
of graphical fluff vs finctionality in our UI(customizable preferably since people play the game in so many different
ways)
Tass Caffington
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2014-11-05 10:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tass Caffington
Hi CCP-guys,

Phoebe looks nice as far as I can tell. There are some issues but I expect them to be fixed. So, nice job in general Blink

However, there is one thing that drives me nuts:
You cannot use the radial menu in the Probe Scanner. Even if the sig is scanned down to 100% you cannot open the radial menu on the sig Straight There is only the rmb-menu available... It would be nice if you could add the radial menu to the Probe Scanner window - at least for the sake of consistency Roll

I know this is not a Phoebe issue but I'd open a beer or two if you guys could 'fix' this Big smile

Regards,
Tass.

WiNGSPAN Delivery Services

"We're not happy until you're content!"
Maynard Kleist
Blue Indie Inventions
#207 - 2014-11-05 10:55:38 UTC
Hi,

this can`t be ment serious - to make a copy of lets say of a 3000 run of a "nanomechanical microprocessor blueprint" I need 60.000 reports - this is about one load with a nereus; and the reports don`t fit into the pos-labs, if you do a lot of copying like me. And to buy the required reports from an npc I need 140 buying processes

This is a non elegant solution.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#208 - 2014-11-05 10:59:47 UTC
Bora Vyvorant wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Following up on this, does anyone see a problem with just stripping reports as a required material for copying Construction Component Blueprints and Advanced Capital Construction Component Blueprints? (Note that this does NOT include Capital Construction Component Blueprints, which anyway don't require them.)

Obviously the requirements are too high right now, but when we started asking "why are they there at all?", we couldn't see a significant justification for them, and given that they're sold by NPCs for less than 30 ISK a unit, it doesn't seem like a significant impact on costs either way. This fix would roll out on Thursday unless there are major objections.

Any chance you can take a look at the requirement for Data Sheets in blueprint copies for small rigs at the same time? The way things are today, you need three of these things per run. As well as the cost and inconvenience of acquiring large numbers of these, given that a Data Sheet is 1m3, three of them are 60% the volume of the item you're going to produce.


Will have a look at this too, thanks.

Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Obviously the requirements are too high right now, but when we started asking "why are they there at all?", we couldn't see a significant justification for them, and given that they're sold by NPCs for less than 30 ISK a unit, it doesn't seem like a significant impact on costs either way. This fix would roll out on Thursday unless there are major objections.


Soo, what your saying is, at some point in your production meetings for this release you all though, "hey i know, lets increase this material input requirement without telling anybody...that sounds like a great plan!".....yet somehow, you now are saying, that after meeting, you aren't even sure why this requirement is there? Shouldn't that have come up in the initial meetings about increasing it?


No, you're misunderstanding the chain of events. We didn't change the quantities of reports at all, we just changed the way the code uses those quantities, so it requires the desired amount once per run rather than once per job. One of the side-effects of this is that report usage is through the roof, so we're throttling that back.
Steven Hackett
Overload This
#209 - 2014-11-05 11:01:11 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:


I disagree with feedback on Singularity not being taken into account because I changed multiple things based on feedback there (adding the % to the delta icon, adding the counter of market orders used and available). I also made the edits larger but apparently not large enough. But that will be fixed tomorrow (as stated multiple times).

It does not mean though that we will implement everything the players are asking for after having tried out features on Singularity, sometimes what they're asking for isn't feasible and sometimes we just don't agree. But most things are taken into account.

And sometimes, ccp Just doesn't fix the issues because then they have no bugs to work on after launch, right? :)
Some of the current bugs were reported in the SiSi forums weeks before launch, and since they are getting fixed now, I don't think they matched your mentioned boxes :)

After that comes that bad programming you guys do.. I mean... If I have a list of 300 items, I delete all 300 items, then Im left with a list of 300 empty spaces? Like the new notification system.. Or the old Corp Killmails", The search function is useless because of the bad coding, and yet, you make the same bad coding in the new features... Kinda removes your right to complain about old code :P
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#210 - 2014-11-05 11:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lone Gunman
PHOEBE 1.1 has been Successfully Deployed.Roll
Umbari Kado
THE RABID RABBITS
#211 - 2014-11-05 11:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Umbari Kado
Umbari Kado wrote:
I already mentioned that - but just for the record:

Drones are ignored in Overview...When a drone is selected in Overview - the Selected Items window defaults to the last selected ship other than the drone. I checked the Overview settings - nothing there which would indicate that sort of behaviour.
Also - drone buttons are missing in Selected Items.

Edit: the navigation buttons are also missing when a planet is selected...that works wonders when one tries to get the pod to safety...now I am REALLY unhappy. Hopefully this will get fixed.

So - it is a bug.

Anyone else ?



GOOD NEWS: after DT today (and a patch deployed) - drones and planets behave CORRECTLY in Overview and Selected Item windows.

WELL DONE CCP !


Edit: The lag when clicking for the first time on a pilot in Overview is still up to 3 sec...Looks like loading the portrait may be the culprit...PLEASE change the the order of things - let the selected pilot show up in Selected Items FIRST, load the portrait NEXT...
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2014-11-05 11:36:35 UTC
I would be really nice if you could fix the learning implants to work again.
Quadima
HyperDreams Studios
#213 - 2014-11-05 11:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Quadima
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
This was a defect we fixed for Phoebe. Input materials should be required when increasing the number of 'JOB RUNS' or increasing the number of 'RUNS PER COPY'.

So you are saying it now works as designed while it did not work as designed before Phoebe? That the immense number of reports required (and the cost for them) is deliberate?


The functionality is working as intended; we're looking into the balance right now :)


Well look into it faster, because there simply aren't enough Reports or Data Sheets in the entire EVE to make just a couple of copies.

NPC sells 400-500 of them at once in a station, then it refreshes only the next day (I think)
How the hell are we supposed to be obtaining all those reports?

... also the sharp costs increase.
Example:
1 crystalline carbonide armor plate = ~10000 isk
20 reports x 33 isk = 660 isk, or 6% of the cost of the item. Add the copy cost... that's about 8% of the cost of the item.

8% of the item cost just to obtain a COPY??

CCP seems to really want to sell those Isk Sink BPO's... and then charge 3-4 times more to get them to -10%/-20%
Great work guys, great work.
Saulvin
Merkabah Industries
Invisible Exchequer
#214 - 2014-11-05 11:56:20 UTC
Quadima wrote:

NPC sells 400-500 of them at once in a station, then it refreshes only the next day (I think)
How the hell are we supposed to be obtaining all those reports?



unless it has recently changed NPC orders are instantly refreshed if depleted.
Also there are stations where more then just a hand full are sold by NPC in the 219k order size.
Enrique d'Ancourt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2014-11-05 11:58:59 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Daniel D Duesentrieb wrote:
Something with the skilltimes in the skill-list is messed up. As soon as I add a skill to my skill-queue, the predicted time of some skills gets longer.

Example:
Tactical Shield Manipulation has a predicted training length of ~14d 15h. After I add "Shield Upgrades" to my training-queue, it has now a predicted training length of ~17d 18h.

Screenshot of the example:
http://i.imgur.com/WCbbRcu.jpg
Yeah, the skill list is calculating it incorrectly, it's including the time it takes for the previous levels you have in the queue, not just the next one. This has been fixed internally, and will be patched soon Smile


Small reminder to also include the API for skill queue length calculations, as Neocom is picking up the resulting increased skill times from the API output.

Thanks in advance
anzelotte
well of abyss
#216 - 2014-11-05 12:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: anzelotte
"Edit fields for quantity and price have been made bigger in the Sell Items window"

still not enough. make them dynamic resizable for god sake..

and btw.. please add a language indicator to login screen..
V Gaming
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#217 - 2014-11-05 12:25:08 UTC
I am currently having a problem when firing up the game at the moment, I log in play for 5 minutes then the game just freezes up for no reason, The first time that happend my PC just froze had to use the reset switch to restart. Is there any place I can upload a error log or something to help out with this problem? If so can someone send me a link in a pm.

Thanks in advance
Jin Raahl
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2014-11-05 12:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jin Raahl
Umbari Kado wrote:
Edit: The lag when clicking for the first time on a pilot in Overview is still up to 3 sec...Looks like loading the portrait may be the culprit...PLEASE change the the order of things - let the selected pilot show up in Selected Items FIRST, load the portrait NEXT...

I have also pointed this out earlier in the thread and hoped that they would take a look at it while addressing the other concern related to drones and planets. Fingers crossed they have time for next patch.
Commander Nina Hanomaa
Chapter Six
Chapters.
#219 - 2014-11-05 12:37:28 UTC
Corporation roles Accountant and Trader still aren't working as they did pre-Phoebe. A character must now be given Accountant role in order to make sell orders for Corporation. It used to be that Trader could make sell orders for Corporation Wallet Division he/she had access for. Now it seems to require Accountant role = full access to all wallet divisions.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Roles_and_access_rights#Trader
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#220 - 2014-11-05 13:02:29 UTC
Commander Nina Hanomaa wrote:
Corporation roles Accountant and Trader still aren't working as they did pre-Phoebe. A character must now be given Accountant role in order to make sell orders for Corporation. It used to be that Trader could make sell orders for Corporation Wallet Division he/she had access for. Now it seems to require Accountant role = full access to all wallet divisions.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Roles_and_access_rights#Trader



thanks I'll look into that

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥