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Navy/Pirate Faction mining ships; New Gameplay
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Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#21 - 2014-11-04 05:02:44 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
You're making some wild assumptions. There are people who play EVE specifically for the industrial side. Some of those people actively like mining. There are certainly people who play EVE to play the markets. Just because you only see PvP in EVE doesn't mean that's the same for everyone.

Our alliance ran a mining op over the weekend and had 80 people in fleet. Mining becomes fun when you do it with other people. The jokes on the comms, working as a team, people scouting the local area, docking up to swap to combat ships when enemies approach. It's all good fun.

Whilst I do agree that mining could be made more fun for the individual, like most things in EVE, it's a whole lot better done with friends.



I do not see only PVP in eve, I see industrialist groups that would do just as well in lower security areas of space, if not better, but instead choosing to remain in hisec, learning nothing about the game itself and crucial elements like how to survive and how to do so while still making a profit.


How exactly do you kow these corps would do better? How do you know they haven't tried in lower sec areas and though 'Nope its rubbish there, back to a stable place where we can control engagements better...'?

Assuming that because they are *currently* working in industrial settings is plain bad. It's also amusing to think that many of the nullsec folks run such corps as a counterpoint to null life and to provide isk for their PvP activities. I remain in hisec and losec by choice whilst having learnt about survival travelling through lower security areas. It is just that, a choice made by those people who play in whichever region they call home. It is not up to any other player to decide that they *need* to see other areas for their own good.


First of all, controlling engagements in high sec is the WORST of all areas to attempt that. With dozens of corporations in high sec patrolling trade hubs and their surrounding regions searching for helpless idiots to pad their killboards and no effective deterrent for dealing with these extortionists other than hiding in station and hiring mercenaries properly controlling engagements terms in high sec is extremely costly, and a logistical nightmare. It baffles me as to how many industry corporations are willing to subject them selves to endless war deccing harassment because they are afraid of a pirate or two in the scarcely populated areas of low/null sec. I know that they would do better because it is easily capable to be witnessed. Mining groups in low sec have the largest disadvantage of being farther away from trade hubs, but that is mostly it. Especially in carefully picked low traffic low sec systems there can be hours that pass by before even one neutral vessel passes through your system. In many cases they can be avoided easily, and even if not, chances are that they are too inconvenienced by the alienation of the area to truly be bothered with you. You are virtually guaranteed to never be war decc'd in low sec, seeing as there are too many variables for engagement there for deccer extortionist to truly be bothered with. Imagine your harassers and their poco smashing fleets reluctant to travel into low security space because if word was caught out about their fleet. . .

You are clearly misjudging the purpose of the statement here. Simply sitting at a screen staring blankly at a green light cycle, is a bad game mechanic. Everyone knows it. It isn't even inconspicuous. How many characters have joined the game at the thought of something new and exciting and in-depth and interesting, and then are deterred by the droll of mining. It is a shattered dream, if you want to continue on with your bad game mechanic and not participate in something new that it could have to offer then fine do that, but there should be better rewards for smarter, riskier, more well thought, and well planned mining. I think that ALL players of any group should be able to venture out into low sec, mine in their mining vessels for a period to make money, have some kind of activity to do while they are out there, and enjoy themselves doing it knowing that they have just evaded some pirate gang doing so or even frightening them off in some way. People who are willing to experience the game in that way make the game more interesting for everyone, and bring cause to develop more emergent gameplay. Those people should be rewarded, and if you have the courage to travel through lowsec than kudos, you should be rewarded for your trouble and success as well; however, saying some that is as bad as it is should remain that way to appease the people who are satisfied with it is undermining the potential of the entirety of EVE and I am against that.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-11-04 09:51:17 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
... Simply sitting at a screen staring blankly at a green light cycle, is a bad game mechanic. Everyone knows it. It isn't even inconspicuous. How many characters have joined the game at the thought of something new and exciting and in-depth and interesting, and then are deterred by the droll of mining. It is a shattered dream, if you want to continue on with your bad game mechanic and not participate in something new that it could have to offer then fine do that, but there should be better rewards for smarter, riskier, more well thought, and well planned mining. I think that ALL players of any group should be able to venture out into low sec, mine in their mining vessels for a period to make money, have some kind of activity to do while they are out there, and enjoy themselves doing it knowing that they have just evaded some pirate gang doing so or even frightening them off in some way. People who are willing to experience the game in that way make the game more interesting for everyone, and bring cause to develop more emergent gameplay. Those people should be rewarded, and if you have the courage to travel through lowsec than kudos, you should be rewarded for your trouble and success as well; however, saying some that is as bad as it is should remain that way to appease the people who are satisfied with it is undermining the potential of the entirety of EVE and I am against that.


You are assuming that is what the miners do, just sit there dumbly. Plenty of mining fleets chat whilst mining, have a laugh with their friends, take pleasure in maximising their efficiency. Choosing to do so in hisec is exactly thet, their choice. These players know that there are better ores in losec and null, they aren't stupid. They simply prefer to mine in hisec where they can control the engagement in terms of making it too expensive to gank them by operating as a fleet or fitting their barge for defense if mining solo-ish. They are in no way undermining the ptoential of Eve, in fact they underpin it by providing cheap minerals to all areas since a large chunk gets compressed and shipped to null.

To demean anothers gameplay by stating something so subjective as your view that the hisec miners need 'encouraging' to move to other areas is wrong. Most miners actually do it because they enjoy it. People very rapidly learn there are faster ways to make isk but miners are actually sociable enough folks if you chat to them and are doing so usually because their time in game is limited or their ability to constantly focus on the screen (as required in losec or null) is hampered by real life priorities. Others do it because they actually like the process, find it relaxing and fulfilling to gain maximum yield through co-operation with others. Sometimes making isk as fast as possible or shooting other people isn't the sole focus of a player in Eve and that's what makes it such a varied and enjoyable game. There is always risk in every activity but there are always choices too that canmitigate that risk.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#23 - 2014-11-04 21:41:59 UTC
First, I need to say that I like the general idea.

Second. It is hard to get people to go along with your idea when you are so short sighted and confrontational when they talk about problems with it. There is no need to get defensive, just listen to what they are saying and take the criticisms to improve your ideas.

Third. Just because you don't like how some people play the game, or how part of the game is set up, does not mean that part of the game needs to change. People don't all need to move to low sec to have enjoyable content. If they didn't enjoy what they were doing they would find something else to do. The game WILL NOT FUNCTION if everyone plays the way you want them to, it functions because the people who play the game have found ways to play that appeal to them.

Those things aside, I like the idea of the mining competition. My biggest issue with your idea is the suspect timer. There is not really a good reason to skew the game more in favor of gankers while giving miners a harder time.

Engaging? Sure. Balanced? No. From a balance standpoint it would be a huge unjustified nerf to people who, realistically, don't make that much Isk.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-11-04 21:55:27 UTC
The only way to improve mining is to design future iterations to focus on player interaction. Adding static content for people to engage in like a theme park does not improve a sandbox-style MMO. Making people work together rather than alone is what Eve is about, that's why tools for player created content are what need to come next to mining, not static NPCs that simply annoy players.

Furthermore, mining in asteroid belts, gas sites, and ice belts as it is right now is intended to be a passive activity. Instead of logging off to play DOTA like you said, you leave EVE running, doing your mining, while playing your DOTA game. Alt tab for the 2 seconds it takes to reactivate on another asteroid when the first is done. Make almost passive isk.

Yes, there is the need for more engaging content for players trained towards mining. CCP has acknowledged they want to do something about that. They have spoken about ring-mining (AKA mining planet ring belts), in which asteroids are moving quickly. They haven't spoken about it for a while however. As I said, though, new content has to foster player interation and be a set of tools for players to build the sandbox with, not a playground for them to go in, do a couple of new things, and then be done with.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
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