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I want to start a small private POS in a WH for mining.

Author
Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-11-04 15:00:36 UTC
How come silo holding capacity is so small? https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Silo

Is there a better way to store ores and gases that's cheaper on the fitting costs for m^3 space?

The http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Living_in_Wormhole_Space seems to say that a POS is a good way to go if you want to live in WH space.

Are small towers any good?

What kind of defenses should be used? Any guns or strictly go ewar? Sensor damps or ecms?
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#2 - 2014-11-04 15:36:19 UTC
You don't use silos for storage, you either use a Corporate Hangar Array for general purpose or a Compression Array for raw resp. a Reprocessing Array for compressed ore. Silos are generally used for moon mining and booster manufacturing.

If you don't want to reprocess the ore directly in the WH, I'd suggest a compression array and just putting the compressed ore into the corp hangar array. It has 3Mio m³ space, which is more than enough.

And what tower size you should use depends on the wormhole class I guess, but small are generally a bad idea because of the low cpu and pg. Consult the WH subforum and ask those guys with more experience, but imho a medium pos is the absolute minimum you want, better go with a large tower, lots of ECM and some guns.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#3 - 2014-11-04 16:25:00 UTC
small will get day trippers that will just attack it for the lol

for the storage use corp hanger array has alot of space. and don't leave the refining array or compression array out (keep them stored in the corp hanger)
Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-11-04 23:54:00 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
small will get day trippers that will just attack it for the lol

for the storage use corp hanger array has alot of space. and don't leave the refining array or compression array out (keep them stored in the corp hanger)

Since ECM are so cheap to fit, does it make more sense to just keep mass ECM on the small tower to avoid damage, or should it have some guns too?
Mertaxa
Capitoline Research and Development
#5 - 2014-11-05 00:36:14 UTC
Herateis wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
small will get day trippers that will just attack it for the lol

for the storage use corp hanger array has alot of space. and don't leave the refining array or compression array out (keep them stored in the corp hanger)

Since ECM are so cheap to fit, does it make more sense to just keep mass ECM on the small tower to avoid damage, or should it have some guns too?


Small tower is a target you shouldn't be relying on to stay in place.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-11-05 01:17:44 UTC
Approach setting up POS the same way you'd approach tanking your haulers against griefers who suicide in hi-sec; make the cost more than the pay-off.

If you had a large POS, you could simply stack so much resists it'd take forever to kill, especially if it's inside a w-space that won't allow carriers or dreads in. Then they lose ISK/hour bashing something, and they risk wormholes closing on them and costing them a lot of time getting back. You don't have to successfully defeat the attack, you just have to defeat their "victory", Pyrrhic is a term that comes to mind.

How you could do that with a small POS? Maybe lots of guns. It has no tank because of low PG, so it must gank.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-11-05 03:13:32 UTC
I think I see. Wouldn't mass ECM be a good defense tool for a wh POS?
Sheri Angela
#8 - 2014-11-05 05:17:27 UTC
Anchor and online ECM, Hardners, and webs. Anchors disrupters, scrams, and a lot of turrets with a few toons trained for starbase defense 4. The AI can manage ECM until pilots rally to man guns of the POS. Make sure not to log off in the POS sense the opposing force can rage cage it with bubbles. In the end if they want that pos gone no matter the price it will fall.

TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here.

Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#9 - 2014-11-05 18:24:37 UTC
Herateis wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
small will get day trippers that will just attack it for the lol

for the storage use corp hanger array has alot of space. and don't leave the refining array or compression array out (keep them stored in the corp hanger)

Since ECM are so cheap to fit, does it make more sense to just keep mass ECM on the small tower to avoid damage, or should it have some guns too?

Bastion. (also drone boats are in essence, immune to pure ECM tower)

Maybe a well set-up medium might be okay...but usually anything not-large is pretty easy to kill, or mess with.
Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-11-06 01:30:58 UTC
So marauders with bastion module are designed to take out POS?
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
#11 - 2014-11-07 14:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sequester Risalo
You can't really put up a meaningful defense with a small pos.
Corporate Hangar Array, Ship maintenance Array and Refining Array will take up most of the Power and CPU. Just try to look innocent and keep your fingers crossed.

You need at least a medium tower to put up proper defense modules. However your best defense will be the mass restrictions on your entrance. Pick a C1 and marauders won't even be allowed to enter. Every intruder will think twice of shooting for hours at a small pos with nothing but an SMA and a CHA. The boredeom/reward ratio is quite unattractive.

If you are truly interested in starting the wh-life you have to read this
http://fiercewebs.com/arcdragon/joomla/

A bit outdated but still the most thorough guide to wormholes.
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#12 - 2014-11-07 17:47:45 UTC
There are upsides and downsides to all of the choices. If somebody wants your POS dead and they know their **** they will make it dead, small, large or otherwise. You have to start with the question "what can I sustain?"

POS fuel cost doubles each time you move up a size. Using Minmatar fuel prices it goes ~90m/month for small, ~180m/month for medium and ~360m/month for large. If you go with a large you better be sure you can make a good deal more than 360m/month if you want to cover fuel and still make a profit. The POS and POS parts themselves can add up quickly as you go up in size. There isn't much point in using a large if you aren't going to load it up with defenses, and those cost ISK and take up space.

The safest advice to give you is to say "use a large," but that may make your venture unprofitable. Mining isn't the most profitable activity in a WH but since you will be there anyway you should consider running combat anoms in addition to mining. That could help your profitability.

I moved into a WH last weekend, you can read about it here if you'd like, although my POS info isn't there so I'll post it here. This isn't my first time in WH's, but it's my first solo attempt to live there.

My setup is:

Minmatar Small (named Rusty Smalls)
3x Medium Artillery Batteries
2x Medium Autocannon Batteries
1x Ship Maintenance Array
1x Compression Array
1x Refinery Array
1x Ammunition Assembly Array

The small doesn't have the powergrid to run all that at once, so I keep one of the Artillery Batteries offline most of the time, and only online one of the following at a time: SMA, CA, RA, AAA. The SMA is a grid hog and that's why the arty stays offline, it could be on with any of the others without a problem. I skipped using a Corp Hangar Array and just keep stuff in a T1 hauler in the SMA. Since I'd never have both online at the same time there is no point to having both for the way I'm operating.

I have no illusion that the guns are scaring anyone, unless maybe I'm controlling them at the time, and even then a T3 fleet would laugh them off. It just didn't feel right to have a POS with no defenses at all, and most other EWAR doesn't fit well with a small.

I would also recommend a full load of strontium, it's cheap even if it takes up valuable space when moving in. A full load of strontium will give you 41 hours of reinforce time. If somebody reinforces your POS for fun they may chose not to stick around to wait out the timer.

Just remember, everything you take in is what you are risking. You could lose it all and have to self-destruct your pod to get out. If you accept this before you go in and plan for contingencies you may have a successful venture. Good luck!

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-11-07 18:26:37 UTC
That's not alot of defense. I would recommend a full complement of POS defenses. Even if they're offline they're a deterrent.

Having a small tower with no hardeners and no points means that some group might just come through and reinforce your tower just for lulz. This doesn't happen alot in lower class wormholes because POS bashing in subcaps is Ebolaids, but is still a concern.

Remember that it's fairly fast/easy to online POS mods. Take a couple of minutes per mod. For that reason I'd recommend bringing in at least a couple of points, web, ECM, hardeners, maybe neuts.


This will require moving a few 100k m3 of POS mods, but will pay dividends if you are ever attacked.

Little story: INSRT recently dealt some justice on a CEO that had stolen and mistreated his corp members. They switched to our corp and relayed the story, so we decided to evict the jerk from his C2. We brought RR domis, and proceeded to bash.

This guy had like 50 small beam lasers on his tower, and kept using them to shoot our sentries. We would ref one of his guns, and he'd just online another. We actually ran out of sentry drones at one point because of it. In the end we still wiped him out, but those extra offline mods bought him hours that he could have used to batphone friends or something.

You can't always anticipate the dangers in WH space, and it's best to take a boy scout attitude for that reason. Be prepared.

Oh, and don't mistreat people, or karma will come back with DPS.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#14 - 2014-11-07 18:49:42 UTC
That's a very good point. Even though I have offline modules at my POS it didn't occur to me to put up additional defenses and leave them offline also. I may have to change what I leave online to hardeners and points and anchor more guns and some ECM. I'm in a C2 so not worried about caps unless the previous occupants come back to life (there are multiple offline POS's in my system). But I'd like my POS to look as challenging as it can.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#15 - 2014-11-07 21:21:08 UTC
After going back and playing with the POS builder a bit more I think I could get more benefit from 5 Hardeners and 3 ECMs being online and just leaving the guns offline until I need them. However this is a lot of volume to haul in, each array is 4k m3. So that's a total of 24k m3 to move. It's also a significant isk investment, rivaling the cost of the tower. So I'll have to think about that until I find another k-space exit.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-11-08 17:31:51 UTC
Moving into a WH for the purposes of mining is a bad idea to begin with.
Fred Kyong
Grollwerk
#17 - 2014-11-08 17:48:27 UTC
A small tower in a WH is just fail. Completely fail!
Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-11-09 04:31:14 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Moving into a WH for the purposes of mining is a bad idea to begin with.


Could you explain a little better? There is some really big rocks in there.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-11-09 12:48:32 UTC
Herateis wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Moving into a WH for the purposes of mining is a bad idea to begin with.


Could you explain a little better? There is some really big rocks in there.



There is no warning when anything drops in to mine your Hulk for tears.

All the belt anoms can be seen by anyone at any time in any ship, they can come in a frig hole or a new exit hole into your space without warning, warp to you cloaked in a Recon or T3 and have you tackled before you even realize they landed right on top of you.

the ONLY way now to mine is to not care about loses, or set up a small bubble at the entrance to the belt with something "accidently" left on the edge of the bubble to decloak ships.
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#20 - 2014-11-10 19:50:03 UTC
Fred Kyong wrote:
A small tower in a WH is just fail. Completely fail!


I'll take my chances, thanks. A small is what I can support, so it is what I used. Maybe it will get blown up before it's a month old, or maybe it will still be there in a year. Nobody knows and that's the fun of it.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

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