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In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE

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13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#721 - 2014-11-03 03:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


That's the whole point. You know, Lamborghini started up manufacturing tractors...

There's many people playing EVE whose interests don't include exploding player stuff, and CCP has been ignoring that for years. They (and almost 99% of players) see that attitude as a liability

"Uh, uh, he doesn't wants to come beat the living lights out of us! He's a misfit freak!"

No my friend, no. Maybe he wants to put some laxative in your breakfast cereal. Maybe he wants to bribe your landowner to cut your water for three days...

There's more than boxing in the world. There's also chessboxing, and even chess.


This attitude is actually pretty standard, but the fact is that it's really just a dodge. I have little interest in exploding player stuff and the game, CCP and the game's community treat me just fine. Being a misfit freak has nothing to do with whether or not you want to engage in 'pew pew' pvp or not.

It has everything to do with the personality of the player, and many times people have personalities incompatible with this game (but rather than understand that, they think it's the game's fault). THIS is what I and others post about, not whether or not you wanna wag your epeen by shooting other folks. It's not PVP vs PVE it's "players that actually like what EVE is" vs the "oh, EVE could be so much better IF ONLY... and EVE better hurry because X new game is coming!" crowd.

Too many posters try to hide behind that "you just want me to play your way/you just want easy kills" lie to salve their own egos, they don't know how to deal with the fact that their are many of us who are PVE focused players and feel the exact same way about the game as many of (but by no means all of) the PVPrs do. I say not all because some pvp're are worse carebears than actual carebears are.

No one (that actually likes EVE) wants EVE to fail. No one wants CCP to broke. No one wants EVE to not change and Evolve, but some of us what the CORE of EVE it's spirit, what it means to stay intact and the "expand to a wider audience" crap has never been compatible with that.

EVE should be the best high quality niche genre game possible, it should appeal firstly and fore-mostly to the kinds of people who already like it and it's concept. Going beyond that would water down the game, burn off it's edge in favor of the nasty blandness the rest of the game (especially MMO) world has fallen in to.


All that fails against a single fact: who is paying the game?

Which boils down to who is buying PLEX from CCP, and who is paying subscriptions rather than buying PLEX from players.

And, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that the people doing that it's not the die hard veterans -all in all, didn't 40% of all players end up being "raven levelers"? Why don't give them something simialr but better... more EVE... rather than go head over heels with "the essence" so the 10% of retention becomes, woo-hoo, a whole 15%? Do you think EVE can be sustainable without 80% of the people currently paying for it?


Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important. If they want Eve to be more free of risk, CCP would be forced by the MBA's to do it. PLEX has always been the pandora's box, as all pay-to-win models are.

Dollars equal votes, in any business or election or economy ever. With the ability of people to mass accounts, their voice suddenly becomes a lot more powerful than if everyone only had one account. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a very real thing from the player end. As a consumer base increases in size, individual customers matter less and less as long as a reasonable majority are pampered, you can **** off the minority with things they don't like, because they suddenly stop being "representative of your client base". Mass accounts means that the majority doesn't have to be nearly as big, and it could even be a minority, because if they as individuals "pay" a lot more for Eve, they have more value than a majority who don't mass accounts. This means that the majority in this case can be pissed off, because they aren't the cash cow.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Nevil Oscillator
#722 - 2014-11-03 06:23:29 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:


Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important. If they want Eve to be more free of risk, CCP would be forced by the MBA's to do it. PLEX has always been the pandora's box, as all pay-to-win models are.

Dollars equal votes, in any business or election or economy ever. With the ability of people to mass accounts, their voice suddenly becomes a lot more powerful than if everyone only had one account. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a very real thing from the player end. As a consumer base increases in size, individual customers matter less and less as long as a reasonable majority are pampered, you can **** off the minority with things they don't like, because they suddenly stop being "representative of your client base". Mass accounts means that the majority doesn't have to be nearly as big, and it could even be a minority, because if they as individuals "pay" a lot more for Eve, they have more value than a majority who don't mass accounts. This means that the majority in this case can be pissed off, because they aren't the cash cow.


I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions about what other players are doing, what they want and why without any statistical evidence to back it up.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#723 - 2014-11-03 10:23:44 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#724 - 2014-11-03 10:49:39 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:


I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions about what other players are doing, what they want and why without any statistical evidence to back it up.

this is general discussion,
you dont let silly things like evidence an statistics get in the way of a good hysterical rant about the games imminent death

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#725 - 2014-11-03 12:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:


I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions about what other players are doing, what they want and why without any statistical evidence to back it up.

this is general discussion,
you dont let silly things like evidence an statistics get in the way of a good hysterical rant about the games imminent death


You're right I shouldn't expect everyone to live up to my standards of stating clearly if my comment is objective or based entirely on my own paranoia.

And I might be pushing my luck for people to understand what that all means.
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#726 - 2014-11-03 16:43:07 UTC
The one thing wrong with eve is each individual players thinks their way is the only way.

Me included Big smile

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#727 - 2014-11-03 18:49:27 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important.


Most probably i just misunderstood you, but how are players that never spend RL currency on the game CCPs cash cow? Or get the developers to believe they were?
While it is true that in eve an additional account, regardless of how it is maintained, can give you more ingame power than e.g. spending that ISK on expensive gear, it should hardly improve whining. (In the context of this post i define whining as the activity of producing text for the purpose of influencing game development in one's favor.)
When trying to use one's account number directly to add weight to one's argumentation, CCP staff can simply check how many of those accounts were plexed and how many were actually paid for.
Also whining can't really be multiboxed at all. As it is now, to simulate multiple players sharing one's opinion (or seemingly sharing that of your opposition while acting unlikeable) one only needs 1 account and to cycle the additional characters on it. And the text production for that purpose is near impossible to automate, thus creating a hard cap on whining speed for a single player.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#728 - 2014-11-03 22:10:19 UTC
Highsec and super caps are the two most wrong things with eve.

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13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#729 - 2014-11-03 22:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
deleted.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#730 - 2014-11-03 22:31:48 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Highsec and super caps are the two most wrong things with eve.


Grr, highsec.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#731 - 2014-11-03 22:31:54 UTC
Violet Hurst wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important.


Most probably i just misunderstood you, but how are players that never spend RL currency on the game CCPs cash cow? Or get the developers to believe they were?
While it is true that in eve an additional account, regardless of how it is maintained, can give you more ingame power than e.g. spending that ISK on expensive gear, it should hardly improve whining. (In the context of this post i define whining as the activity of producing text for the purpose of influencing game development in one's favor.)
When trying to use one's account number directly to add weight to one's argumentation, CCP staff can simply check how many of those accounts were plexed and how many were actually paid for.
Also whining can't really be multiboxed at all. As it is now, to simulate multiple players sharing one's opinion (or seemingly sharing that of your opposition while acting unlikeable) one only needs 1 account and to cycle the additional characters on it. And the text production for that purpose is near impossible to automate, thus creating a hard cap on whining speed for a single player.



RL money being poured into Eve wouldn't exist without those people who exist to trade ISK for PLEX. Without people selling ISK for what is de factor ISK for RL money, there wouldn't be a market, and hence, no flow of money into CCP. PLEX buyers are the cash cow, because if they didn't exist, people wouldn't be buying excess PLEX to trade in game to other players in the first place.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#732 - 2014-11-03 23:01:45 UTC
Justice Zeta wrote:
It's funny when people expect honour in a computer game. It's just pixels ffs. This isn't pistols at dawn.


I can't help but hear the musical pocket watch from "For a Few Dollars More". Perhaps CCP should make this the dueling music. PVP in Eve will never be about a "fair fight".

Even or "fair" fights happen on occasion but likely due to poor planning on at least one of the pilots. Maybe duels or test fights between friends could be one exception. Once people learn and accept how the game play actually works rather than how they want it to work Eve can be a fun game. People that insist on playing Eve like it's WoW with spaceships will continue to rage about how "unfair" it was that their ship was destroyed and that they were killed using an "exploit".
Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#733 - 2014-11-04 03:57:36 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:

RL money being poured into Eve wouldn't exist without those people who exist to trade ISK for PLEX. Without people selling ISK for what is de factor ISK for RL money, there wouldn't be a market, and hence, no flow of money into CCP. PLEX buyers are the cash cow, because if they didn't exist, people wouldn't be buying excess PLEX to trade in game to other players in the first place.



PLEX sellers are the only ones that matter. The grinding competition people are having to obtain the PLEX from the market is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if someone pays 850M for a PLEX or 150M. At the end of the day, CCP receives roughly $20 no matter how much ISK changed hands in game.

You could even argue that the more grinding happens (read: the more ISK each PLEX buys) the less PLEX are bought to meet people's goals. You can get a freaking fitted carrier or blingy mission boat for mowing someone's RL lawn! Back in the day of ghost training and 30 day timecards if someone wanted that kind of boat violence they'd be forking over hundreds. Or personally grinding for a month.
Nevil Oscillator
#734 - 2014-11-04 14:19:05 UTC
Someone wants to buy something that costs 3 billion ISK and use real money to do it. If PLEX is 500 mil then they have trade 6, if PLEX is 1 billion then they only have to trade 3.

You trade PLEX on market you get ISK, in contracts I guess you could ask for other things but that is the only fact about it that I am sure of, they want your ISK.
Is that so hard to believe, looking at the efforts some players put in to taking it from you by PVP force and AFK mining or manufacturing things that you want to buy ?
The Tomonator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#735 - 2014-11-04 14:35:20 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai][quote=Jenn aSide][quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]

Mass accounts means that the majority doesn't have to be nearly as big, and it could even be a minority, because if they as individuals "pay" a lot more for Eve, they have more value than a majority who don't mass accounts. This means that the majority in this case can be pissed off, because they aren't the cash cow.


Unless the actions of pissed off majority pisses off the minority, in which case the fall will be quick and sudden if that minority reacts. Thus, a very vulnerable position, and unwise business sense.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#736 - 2014-11-04 14:50:25 UTC
Isboxer is okay until ccp says it's not.

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Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#737 - 2014-11-04 15:17:08 UTC
The ultimate summing up of the answer to this thread.
People not letting themselves have fun in EVE is what's wrong with it.
Take joy in the explosion of others. Take joy in the explosion of the self.
The BOOM is primal and beautiful, it is what makes everything go.
If you get caught in the blast, well that sucks for right now... but that doesn't stop you from going forth and spreading the BOOM to someone else.
Stop taking this so seriously, that's what RL is for.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.