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Isn't it time for CONCORD to re-draw their map?

Author
Valei Khurelem
#21 - 2011-12-14 13:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Malcom Dax wrote:
Interesting idea. But many people would rage.


Perfect! Lets put the plan into action!

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#22 - 2011-12-14 13:39:09 UTC
Creating a dynamic system for Eve would be the "shake up" this game desperately needs. However this would be pointless, until low-sec actually becomes something unique and worth wild. Otherwise it would just **** everyone off.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#23 - 2011-12-14 13:41:16 UTC
Also anyone that is interested in a revitalisation of lowsec, should head over to mittens blog at ten ton, he actually has a few good ideas about lowsec revitalistion.

All we can do at the moment, is hope that seeing as CCP has appeased the nullbears and HI-bears for the last patches, that the next major content patch will be lowsec focused.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.

Prince Kobol
#24 - 2011-12-14 13:46:02 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Shivus Tao wrote:


Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.


Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.


Yet many null sec peeps state this is the opposite...

Did you ask your Goons Masters for permission before you posted?
Azro Zora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-14 13:47:12 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Shivus Tao wrote:


Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.


Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.


so you went from beeing really terrible to just beeing really bad. ic
Taint
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-14 13:47:59 UTC
Like this idea :)
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#27 - 2011-12-14 14:12:46 UTC
Major Templar wrote:
Your right, Concord should redraw their lines. But I propose the other way around. Lets just remove them completely and make all of EVE 0.0 space. Yarr. Twisted


My 1st reaction was the same; we need less Concord not more. Even a diehard carebear should know that Pew-Pew and Yarr!! is the engine that drives the economy. When players stop blowing things up and getting blown up, they stop buying goods to replace what has been lost. When that happens, the carebear is out of a job.

But on thinking a bit more, if it was limited only to Empire space, I could see a system of dynamic system security ratings as an interesting mechanic. Done in conjunction with dynamic agent rewards (over utilized agents give lower rewards, while unused agents give greater rewards), it could be very interesting and would reward players for spreading out rather than following the herd.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-12-14 14:23:12 UTC
Ankh wrote:
Major Templar wrote:
...Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye.


Err, I think you missed the point. The new null would still be dragon land, exactly the same mechanics as now. Only it would be in different systems, and a lot of it will be where hi-sec is now. Big smile

Well... and the activity in NPC "zero" sec would potentially lead to an increase in security level eventully allow for much better mining and ratting under CONCORD protection. The proposed system works both ways.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

ovenproofjet
Gallifrey Industries
#29 - 2011-12-14 14:45:17 UTC
Smells of Carebeaer wanting another suicide ganking nerf. By the logic presented systems like Niarja, popular for ganking because of 0.5 sec and high traffic, would loose their "charm" Twisted
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#30 - 2011-12-14 15:23:31 UTC
ovenproofjet wrote:
Smells of Carebeaer wanting another suicide ganking nerf. By the logic presented systems like Niarja, popular for ganking because of 0.5 sec and high traffic, would loose their "charm" Twisted


That bit of the suggestion does make sense though. You'd expect Concord to react and protect key trade routes and player traffic would establish it.
Malcolm Gunn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-12-14 15:38:40 UTC
It could be set up so that CONCORD has finite resources to maintain sec status in systems.

IE: If sec status increases in one system yielding greater CONCORD presence, there should be a sec status decrease in at least one other less traveled system.
Farethria
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-12-14 17:16:08 UTC
Damned interesting idea. It gets at a problem, which is access to low/null sec space through only a few choke points mean the carebears won't try. What we need is a thinner hisec, with a lot more tendrils and access into low and null sec space.

The current system causes those (HED-GP) access points to low/null sec to be continuously camped, either by the large alliances or some gank gang, either way the carebears aren't coming. But what if nullsec had hundreds of openings, large alliances would be forced to actively protect their space, and when stretched thin they would have to make a decision on what to hold, and not be able to hold huge areas by holding a few key systems.

A little bit more like real space also.

How about the sov holder gets to set the sec level? wouldn't that be interesting - islands of hisec in nullsec.
Barakkus
#33 - 2011-12-14 17:26:53 UTC
They should just reverse null and highsec systems one day with no warning...all of null becomes highsec and all highsec becomes null...just for a day...would be hilarious...

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2011-12-14 17:38:43 UTC
…sure, with the addendum that areas with high pirate presence become nullsec because, obviously, the pirates have taken the place over.

This means constellations such as Suon,Santenpaa, Karnola, Perud, Coriault… you know, the usual spots? Twisted
Niamo Higate
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-12-14 17:41:03 UTC
While the idea of changing the sec status of already high security systems to adapt to what the players are doing is great, the fact that you mentioned changing some parts of null space makes this idea ridiculous.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#36 - 2011-12-14 17:54:03 UTC
Pod Pilots do not control the security of the space,

Regular people do. And when regular people make that space very hazardous for other people to the point concord cant do anything about it or the empire police forces they stop bothering.

Remember Concord doesnt have the ability to wft uber pwn anything else that doesnt have a capsuleer pilotining it. Special jovian pod jamming technology makes that possible.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-12-14 17:57:52 UTC
I have been wanting dynamic system sec status for a loooonnnnggg time now. Why should high sec always remain high sec? I was so looking forward to incursions shutting off CONCORD in a system.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#38 - 2011-12-14 18:11:00 UTC
Farethria wrote:
The current system causes those (HED-GP) access points to low/null sec to be continuously camped, either by the large alliances or some gank gang, either way the carebears aren't coming. But what if nullsec had hundreds of openings, large alliances would be forced to actively protect their space, and when stretched thin they would have to make a decision on what to hold, and not be able to hold huge areas by holding a few key systems.

A little bit more like real space also.

This has always been the problem I've seen. Once you get out to the raggedy edge, suddenly you're taking a long bridge to low or null. the next bridge could be 10 systems over. I can only imagine they put these choke points in intentionally, to foment battle. But as was said, constant gate camps by seasoned PvPers now throws up a big roadblock for young players. The border needs to be more porous in those places.

To the main idea: I'd love to see that sort of shake-up. High pod kill areas get Concord swarmed and their sec status raised dynamically. Hi-sec areas with little population or traffic lose Concord's interest, and start to lose security. Lo-sec ares with high traffic or market or POS's or whatever get security protection. Et cetera.

It would make the game feel alive. When plotting your route, you'd have to actually pay attention to the current sec status. Long used routes would slowly change, and if you want to avoid the new lower sec systems, you have to find a new route. Adds a modicum of planning and tactics to something as mindless as freight hauling. Oases of hi-sec could start popping up in lo or null, providing brief havens for those wearied by the constant cold wars. Conversely, lo and null could creep into the edges of hi where few bother setting up.

A constantly emergent universe that reacts based on player actions. It would be glorious. And it would cause a firestorm the likes of which might ignite the pants of the bloated, slothful lords of the dragon lands, who have long since slain all the beasts and claimed their hoards for themselves.
Averyia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-12-14 18:14:42 UTC
Ankh wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
lots of work, not so much reward.


Is it really a lot of work for CCP? I was thinking a simple alogrythm, where sec status is derived from player generated statistics such as 'average number of pod-pilots in space during the last month', or something like that.

Yes, it would mean a lot of work for some players. But then that's part of the purpose, to stir things up a bit. I would imagine CONCORD would make announcements about the changes well in advance.


There is your mistake right their. You think that any change to fundamental game mechanics would "only" require a "simple" "algorythm".

One, in a program as complicated as Eve, there is no such think as a "simple change".

Two, your overall idea begs the question... why? Why should the large empires have Concord protect anything outside of their borders. Pod pilots knew what they were signing up for, near immortality for the freedom to do whatever they want. Except here, here, and here.

All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities.

Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-12-14 18:23:04 UTC
Its a good idea, would just have to be part of something bigger; I don't think the larger alliances, holding vast tracks of Sov would be happy if their memberbase turned their truesec -1.0 into a 1.0 via carebearing. Leave nullsec alone, and the way it is; messing with this would just **** off most of the playerbase; and further cripple the Dominion Sov system (for example what would happen to outposts and other nullsec only stuff if it was 'suddenly empire'?).

A reactive system sec status in high sec would be interesting, it would have to be a slow evolution, and handled at downtime or the acts of a few could seriously sway important systems.. For instance, Jita would practically instantly be 0.0 by your proposition, unless they would factor in bordering systems and their sec status to effectively change other systems. The Madmirillire and Niarja would also see over night drops in System Sec as well.

I'm all for shaking things up a bit, but it would definitely need to be done properly.. have the negative aspects such as Ganking, Pods Destroyed, Aggression, Etc factor against Missions, Incursions, and Ratting. Have people that enjoy their highsec utopia have to work on defending it from the empire yarrbears. You could even work the individual security status of players that inhabit those systems play into it as well.

This is a pretty great idea, just needs some thought, time and tuning.