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Warfare & Tactics

 
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ASB vs AAR

First post
Author
Jegrey Dozer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-28 08:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jegrey Dozer
Has there been any formal explanation given on the discrepancies between these two modules?

This website, http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/24/eve-evolved-new-ancillary-armor-repairers-arent-up-to-the-task/, claims for a measly 5.42% difference in repair amount, in favor of the AAR, the ASB can be used without consuming any capacitor, has a cycle time 300% faster, and does not share the AAR's one module per ship stipulation.

I mainly fly frigate sized hulls, so perhaps these modules pan out different in larger ships, but the AAR is unequivocal inferior to the ASB in my tier of PvP.

On one hand, I do not want to be a cry-baby, but I am having a very difficult time justifying the incredible advantage of using the ASB. The comparison between these two has left me frustrated thinking that many of my fights could have turned out differently if I never had to use any capacitor repairing my ship.

Edit: Grammar
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-10-28 08:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
SAAR advantages:

. very low fitting requirements
. work even when the paste runs out
. have 2 rigs to boost performance (both duration AND repair amount; the ASB lacks the latter), with laughable drawbacks
. use lowslots; having free midslots is arguably more useful in frigate PVP

Not saying they're better or worse than ASBs, but they're certainly useful and effective in many ships, fits and situations.


EDIT: otoh, I honestly don't know why AARs are limited to 1 per ship while ASBs aren't; probably because of the low fitting requirements and the fact that they're lowslot mods: most frigs could easily fit 2 or even 3 while maintaining combat-effective mids (prop, point/scram, web)

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-10-28 09:50:48 UTC
Jegrey Dozer wrote:
Has there been any formal explanation given on the discrepancies between these two modules?

This website, http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/24/eve-evolved-new-ancillary-armor-repairers-arent-up-to-the-task/, claims for a measly 5.42% difference in repair amount, in favor of the AAR, the ASB can be used without consuming any capacitor, has a cycle time 300% faster, and does not share the AAR's one module per ship stipulation.

I mainly fly frigate sized hulls, so perhaps these modules pan out different in larger ships, but the AAR is unequivocal inferior to the ASB in my tier of PvP.

On one hand, I do not want to be a cry-baby, but I am having a very difficult time justifying the incredible advantage of using the ASB. The comparison between these two has left me frustrated thinking that many of my fights could have turned out differently if I never had to use any capacitor repairing my ship.

Edit: Grammar



Because that line of tought is completely WRONG.

You cannot average the bonus and the panalty after charges run out. You use them when you want to make th fight finish BEFORE your charges run out.

They are 66% more efficien than normal repairers, PERIOD. If you will need more than 10 cycles you need a completely different setup.

YEs they are inferior to ASBs, but mostly because you can only fit 1.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-10-28 12:33:04 UTC
apples to oranges, anyone?

Shields have lower resists, increased requirements for tanking mods, and boosting cannot be improved with rigs. Hardeners take up mid slots and a lot of CPU and it can be a problem also.

ASBs are cool, but you cannot compare the two modules directly.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe

Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#5 - 2014-10-28 13:11:51 UTC
but how come my light missiles don't do as much damage as blasters!?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-10-28 13:17:49 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
but how come my light missiles don't do as much damage as blasters!?
Maybe cuz you're in the wrong Corp now? P

o7 fearless leader

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#7 - 2014-10-28 17:26:29 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
but how come my light missiles don't do as much damage as blasters!?


I know, right? It's so unfair. I mean CCP isn't even my real dad and he totally doesn't understand me. God, everything he does just makes my life hell. I'm going to run away. That'll teach him.
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#8 - 2014-10-28 23:21:34 UTC
Or you can just with 1 of each and laugh how the enemy can't break your tank :)

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !

DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#9 - 2014-10-29 00:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ FunkyBacon
ASBs in their most effective setups are hard to fit along with decent resists. Reason being is that for an ASB to be truly effective you have to use an oversized one (medium on a frig, large on a cruiser for example) which eats up a LOT of grid. I think if you compare a small ASB to a small AAR you will find they are comparable, but you can't really oversize AARs on ships. Also, any resistance mods on a shield setup come at the expense of slots to be used for tackle and ewar, or a cap injector that can keep an active armor rep going for a VERY long time.

With a right sized AAR on a proper armor ship, you can also make up for some of the shortfall with a better resist profile, which will make those rep points mean more. You have more reaction time to start them up once you start taking damage, and finally, there is a reason most frigs don't want to solo a dual rep incursus where that AAR is being backed up by a t2 rep, and that tank will last loads longer than most frigate ASB setups.

Oh... and active armor setups don't give either sig bloom OR speed penalties, and sig bloom from shield rigs/mods can result in more incoming damage to tank as well.

My favorite active armor setups involve more kiting and mid to long range engagement with the exception of the incursus.

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Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#10 - 2014-10-29 01:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Plato Forko
an SAAR takes only 40GJ to dry rep while an MASB takes 5x more cap to do it. I've pulled many 11th hour wins out of overtime SAAR repping but chances of survival after MASB charges run out is so dubious that 10 cycles might as well be considered the hard limit.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#11 - 2014-10-29 12:30:21 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
SAAR advantages:

. very low fitting requirements
. work even when the paste runs out
. have 2 rigs to boost performance (both duration AND repair amount; the ASB lacks the latter), with laughable drawbacks
. use lowslots; having free midslots is arguably more useful in frigate PVP

Not saying they're better or worse than ASBs, but they're certainly useful and effective in many ships, fits and situations.


EDIT: otoh, I honestly don't know why AARs are limited to 1 per ship while ASBs aren't; probably because of the low fitting requirements and the fact that they're lowslot mods: most frigs could easily fit 2 or even 3 while maintaining combat-effective mids (prop, point/scram, web)



Common misconception: The 'duration' rig is actually NOT boosting the AAR's performance. If you use an aar, you actually say '**** you' to your own tank when you fit that one.

They're also limited to 1 per ship because otherwise you could cycle one while the other reloads, and in case of an emergency, keep it cycling without bigger capacitor usage to get that last few seconds of reload through. Which would mean, from 2 reppers that you alternate between, you'd get more than 2 reppers of average repair amount over time.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#12 - 2014-10-29 18:35:44 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
They're also limited to 1 per ship because otherwise you could cycle one while the other reloads, and in case of an emergency, keep it cycling without bigger capacitor usage to get that last few seconds of reload through. Which would mean, from 2 reppers that you alternate between, you'd get more than 2 reppers of average repair amount over time.

This is my take on it. If unloaded AARs sucked your cap dry like ASBs do, they'd likely not have the "1 per ship" limit. Allowing 2 current AARs on a ship would be overpowered.

Personally, I like things just the way they are now. Both useful, both similar, yet also still distinctly different as armor and shield tanks should be.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid
#13 - 2014-10-29 23:11:31 UTC
Because of several points posted above and also because of the other rep module options open to armour ships. Triple-shield-boosted Cyclones have never been a thing, triple-armour-rep Myrmidons pop up whenever "being a solo BC" isn't the worst idea ever. Shield Boosting got a better module because it needed more help, bluntly.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#14 - 2014-10-29 23:19:45 UTC
Gaan Cathal wrote:
Because of several points posted above and also because of the other rep module options open to armour ships. Triple-shield-boosted Cyclones have never been a thing, triple-armour-rep Myrmidons pop up whenever "being a solo BC" isn't the worst idea ever. Shield Boosting got a better module because it needed more help, bluntly.


My quad XL-ASB cyno scorp wants a word with you :p
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#15 - 2014-11-02 09:48:08 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
They're also limited to 1 per ship because otherwise you could cycle one while the other reloads, and in case of an emergency, keep it cycling without bigger capacitor usage to get that last few seconds of reload through. Which would mean, from 2 reppers that you alternate between, you'd get more than 2 reppers of average repair amount over time.

This is my take on it. If unloaded AARs sucked your cap dry like ASBs do, they'd likely not have the "1 per ship" limit. Allowing 2 current AARs on a ship would be overpowered.

Personally, I like things just the way they are now. Both useful, both similar, yet also still distinctly different as armor and shield tanks should be.


Depending on your shield ship it can be beneficial to fit both ASB and regular boosters only using the ASB when things get ugly or your capacitor runs empty.