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Separate the four empires with low security space.

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King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1661 - 2014-10-30 18:25:35 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Would require too much thought and effort. On the other hand, I am absolutely against making Low and Null too interesting and popular. I love the dead and empty reaches of Solitude, Kor-Azor, Aridia, Derelik and Khanid. They are absolutely awesome for more solitary activities and I do not see either necessity or reasons to change that.


Thank you for pointing out one of the major issue that we face here.
The desires I see posted for low are polar opposites and therefor will never be resolved for all of the players.

The majority of those who have posted here want more targets to be forced into low sec so they can shoot them, but that would eliminate the vast areas of virtually empty space that you and many others I know personally enjoy.

Keep low the way it is so you have the areas of empty space an the group who wants more targets to shoot suffers.

Solving low is a complex issue and I have no idea how to "solve" it. What I do know for sure is that forcing people to make a decision to stay forever in one small area of high sec space or risk moving all of their stuff through low sec is not a viable solution especially when there is no game wide benefit in doing so. And no your desire to have more targets to shoot does not qualify as a game wide benefit, because it comes at the expense of removing freedoms currently enjoyed by the largest single player base in the game, those who choose to call high sec their home.


Game wide benefit, and the whole point of this thread is to give birth to a more complex universal economy consisting of local and inter-regional trades.

Lowsec people dont need more targets, it is the most active pvp region by number of kills per capita, and contrary to your naive beliefs, they arent parricularly interested in shooting hiseccers.

What they do wish, however, is that the people who are currently stuck in hisec would come and experience virtual life in lawless space, because lowsec people know its better. Its just a more immersive, social and overall rewarding gameplay experience, for the same sub price.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1662 - 2014-10-30 19:11:43 UTC
VERY liked. It will encourage more PvP and corps to hire PvPers in house or as merc, and it will create more jobs.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1663 - 2014-10-30 19:21:16 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Game wide benefit, and the whole point of this thread is to give birth to a more complex universal economy consisting of local and inter-regional trades.

Lowsec people dont need more targets, it is the most active pvp region by number of kills per capita, and contrary to your naive beliefs, they arent parricularly interested in shooting hiseccers.

What they do wish, however, is that the people who are currently stuck in hisec would come and experience virtual life in lawless space, because lowsec people know its better. Its just a more immersive, social and overall rewarding gameplay experience, for the same sub price.


Then stop the victimization and provide an environment of which one would want to be part of. No additional Low sec is needed for that. For instance, as long as miners are shunned as the bottom of the EVE community, the doormat of the populace, not many of them will be willing to become part of your community. Just as a hint. Roll

In contrast. players out there should search for ways to make Low sec in itself better. More of the same useless rubbish does not achieve anything you want.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1664 - 2014-10-30 21:24:07 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:

Game wide benefit, and the whole point of this thread is to give birth to a more complex universal economy consisting of local and inter-regional trades.

Lowsec people dont need more targets, it is the most active pvp region by number of kills per capita, and contrary to your naive beliefs, they arent parricularly interested in shooting hiseccers.

What they do wish, however, is that the people who are currently stuck in hisec would come and experience virtual life in lawless space, because lowsec people know its better. Its just a more immersive, social and overall rewarding gameplay experience, for the same sub price.


If you read back and see the comments from hisec people they flat refuse to travel through losec. How then would this lead to a more complex economy? It would stifle areas and people would simply aggregate to the current largest hub.

If the losec people have plenty of targets and don't like shooting hiseccers then why try to push hisec folks into losec space?

I think if you ask those in hisec they don't feel 'stuck' at all. They could easily run through losec for shorter trade routes right now but *choose* not to. They want nothing of losec. Whether losec is better or worse is completely subjective and those in hisec would mostly say it is far worse. I have plenty of immersive social interactions up in hisec and have a perfectly rewardig game experience. Whislt I enjoy running through losec I wouldn't want to *have* to do so unless I choose to. This change would force anyone who wishes to make a reasonable profit to do so or simply arbitrarily lose any profit margin they have. How long do you think thwey would keep subbing their chars for then?

The sec areas are fine as are, what's missing is reasons to entice those from hisec to losec, and even then it would only be a small %. Most in hisec want to carry out their business without being under constant threat of explosion. That is their choice and to force anything else upon them would be wrong (beyond the acceoted risk every time you undock of course :D )..
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1665 - 2014-10-30 22:40:20 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Game wide benefit, and the whole point of this thread is to give birth to a more complex universal economy consisting of local and inter-regional trades.

Lowsec people dont need more targets, it is the most active pvp region by number of kills per capita, and contrary to your naive beliefs, they arent parricularly interested in shooting hiseccers.

What they do wish, however, is that the people who are currently stuck in hisec would come and experience virtual life in lawless space, because lowsec people know its better. Its just a more immersive, social and overall rewarding gameplay experience, for the same sub price.


Then stop the victimization and provide an environment of which one would want to be part of. No additional Low sec is needed for that. For instance, as long as miners are shunned as the bottom of the EVE community, the doormat of the populace, not many of them will be willing to become part of your community. Just as a hint. Roll

In contrast. players out there should search for ways to make Low sec in itself better. More of the same useless rubbish does not achieve anything you want.


How come people haven't run spacelane protection corps? Or miner defense corps?

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1666 - 2014-10-30 22:48:05 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Then stop the victimization and provide an environment of which one would want to be part of. No additional Low sec is needed for that. For instance, as long as miners are shunned as the bottom of the EVE community, the doormat of the populace, not many of them will be willing to become part of your community. Just as a hint. Roll

In contrast. players out there should search for ways to make Low sec in itself better. More of the same useless rubbish does not achieve anything you want.


How come people haven't run spacelane protection corps? Or miner defense corps?


Miners don't want to pay unreliable people? Miners don't want to pay ridiculous prices for "protection"? Miners don't want to pay at all (also a problem, but understandable with the love for scaming and awoxing and the 2 previous questions)? PVPers don't want to sit around and wait for something to happen? Too much effort? The "I want to shoot something now!!11!" mentality? The "I want content without me doing something for it!!" mentality? The attitude that miners are not needed in game and that they are all bots or soon-to-be bots? Because mining is boring? Because no one wants to fly around in empty space and cause content? Because people don't undock unless ships are SRP'd? Or unless they get a guaranteed kill/kill streak? Because many players rather sit in station and wait for pings, while playing other games?

I've heard all of these questions and justifications not to do something and the list is by far not exhaustive. So take your pick. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1667 - 2014-10-30 23:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Rivr Luzade wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Then stop the victimization and provide an environment of which one would want to be part of. No additional Low sec is needed for that. For instance, as long as miners are shunned as the bottom of the EVE community, the doormat of the populace, not many of them will be willing to become part of your community. Just as a hint. Roll

In contrast. players out there should search for ways to make Low sec in itself better. More of the same useless rubbish does not achieve anything you want.


How come people haven't run spacelane protection corps? Or miner defense corps?


Miners don't want to pay unreliable people? Miners don't want to pay ridiculous prices for "protection"? Miners don't want to pay at all (also a problem, but understandable with the love for scaming and awoxing and the 2 previous questions)? PVPers don't want to sit around and wait for something to happen? Too much effort? The "I want to shoot something now!!11!" mentality? The "I want content without me doing something for it!!" mentality?


You're right and the biggest problem lies is not wanting to pay. If you have to pay, your produce gets more expensive to cover your costs. That's how the real world works. Why can't people figure that out in Eve?

It's funny that they don't want to sit around and wait for something to happen when that's exactly how FW plays out anyway. Warp here, warp there, warp to station, warp to gate, too little or too much enemy, warp somewhere else, etc.

PvP for low sec miner protection is about as "exciting" as this kind of factional "warfare" I just described. Why WOULDNT they want to do some miner security? They're making money WHILE flying around looking for PvP, instead of grinding ISK and THEN going to PvP. Time saver.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1668 - 2014-10-31 02:02:49 UTC
A necessary change.

The new regions should be Sansha + EoM.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#1669 - 2014-10-31 02:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: J A Aloysiusz
Lugia3 wrote:
A necessary change.

The new regions should be Sansha + EoM.


+1

(edit) Let me add more:
I think this would need to be coupled with more local industry specialization to work properly. Moving things from Jita to Amarr should be both difficult and profitable.

I also think that once local industry is sorted, JFs need to be nerfed. It isn't reasonable that moving things more quickly is also significantly safer.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#1670 - 2014-11-01 02:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Game wide benefit, and the whole point of this thread is to give birth to a more complex universal economy consisting of local and inter-regional trades.

Do you have any research, market analysis, or player survey data to back this up?
I though not. Besides essentially forcing the largest player base in the game to do something they do not want to do you are asking CCP to take a huge gamble on the future of the game we all enjoy.


King Fu Hostile wrote:
Lowsec people dont need more targets, it is the most active pvp region by number of kills per capita, and contrary to your naive beliefs, they arent parricularly interested in shooting hiseccers.

If you have enough targets to shoot and do not want any more then why does this matter?

If all high sec players do is use low as a freeway to get from a to b how does it impact or change what is going on in low and what would be the impact to the rest of the game especially the markets?

If you are not looking for targets then you would agree to an exclusion zone of say 200,000 meters around all of the gates in low. These exclusion zones would prevent the activation of all modules except a warp drive or micro jump drives. Doing this would let the high sec players into low, without the risk of being killed at every gate they are forced to pass through.

King Fu Hostile wrote:
What they do wish, however, is that the people who are currently stuck in hisec would come and experience virtual life in lawless space, because lowsec people know its better. Its just a more immersive, social and overall rewarding gameplay experience, for the same sub price.

This one shows just how complete your lack of understanding of the average high sec player truly is. ALL high sec players are aware of low, and most of them are aware of the greater rewards that are to be had there. The issue is simply that THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE at any point or for any reason.

Low sec being better is subjective and it is a personal point of view, the largest block of players in the game would tell you that you are wrong. Me this is just another indicator of how little you and others understand those who choose to make high sec their home in this game.

Low sec being more social is also a personal opinion and my experiences say that you are wrong. But then that is a personal opinion as well.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1671 - 2014-11-01 18:37:02 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


The problem is that those in the hisec area absolutely do not want to be in the losec area.


Then they don't have to go.

Duh.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1672 - 2014-11-01 18:45:05 UTC
Gaan Cathal wrote:

My personal support for this, as a Lowsec denizen, isn't about having more people for me to shoot.

You really are some type of comedian, you are! You want people to think you "care" about the earning power of the HS players? Of course it's about getting you more easy action. There is no other reason for wanting this.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1673 - 2014-11-01 18:52:23 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


The problem is that those in the hisec area absolutely do not want to be in the losec area.


Then they don't have to go.

Duh.

Making redundant the idea that started this topic. All that happens is the HS players have their game crippled, while the LS players experience nothing new.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1674 - 2014-11-01 19:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:

You really are some type of comedian, you are! You want people to think you "care" about the earning power of the HS players? Of course it's about getting you more easy action. There is no other reason for wanting this.

Making redundant the idea that started this topic. All that happens is the HS players have their game crippled, while the LS players experience nothing new.


How would your game be crippled exactly?


People who aren't afraid of lowsec now have an actual advantage in going through it to make isk and people who are afraid of it have an unchanged game.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1675 - 2014-11-01 19:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
What advantage? I remember the times when TEST held sov in Fountain and the terror of Hier. Nothing cloaky made it through there. I thus don't see any advantage. Just easier targets for Low sec people, because the game's population has become so terrible and needs easy content.

On the other hand, the absolutely only advantage I see is that dead areas of today become even deader as people move to these blazing hot areas of Low sec. That is in fact very much in my favor, as I then do not need about pesky neutrals in local any more when I explore and do my stuff. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1676 - 2014-11-01 19:24:29 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What advantage? I remember the times when TEST held sov in Fountain and the terror of Hier. Nothing cloaky made it through there. I thus don't see any advantage. Just easier targets for Low sec people, because the game's population has become so terrible and needs easy content.

On the other hand, the absolutely only advantage I see is that dead areas of today become even deader as people move to these blazing hot areas of Low sec. That is in fact very much in my favor, as I then do not need about pesky neutrals in local any more when I explore and do my stuff. Big smile


Advantage doesn't mean advantage over pirates.

Economic advantage of crossing lowsec.

If there is more money to be made by crossing from A-B then people will be more willing to learn how to get from A-B.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1677 - 2014-11-01 19:43:38 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

Advantage doesn't mean advantage over pirates.

Economic advantage of crossing lowsec.

If there is more money to be made by crossing from A-B then people will be more willing to learn how to get from A-B.



Just like people are doing now, I presume? Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1678 - 2014-11-01 20:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
It would be great if the empires were separated by low sec and faction warfare could effect the security status, and what empire owned these parts of space. For example, owning all the surrounding systems turns part of it in to high sec but owning least than half means there is no high sec connections between two empires.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1679 - 2014-11-01 20:02:58 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
It would be great if the empires were separated by low sec and faction warfare could effect the security status, and what empire owned these parts of space.


Empire Space is already divided by Low sec for FW.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1680 - 2014-11-01 20:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
It would be great if the empires were separated by low sec and faction warfare could effect the security status, and what empire owned these parts of space.


Empire Space is already divided by Low sec for FW.


Na i mean that you wouldn't be able to get from Dodixi to Jita without going through low sec if the low sec systems were contested by rival factions.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...