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The Bubble Thread.

Author
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#21 - 2014-10-03 19:30:58 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What happened to bouncing off a celestial after spotting the bubble on dscan?


As per the post above mine doesn't really help much when someone has put 30+ bubbles on the gate and while its not a completely common occurrence its not completely uncommon either - 40 jumps through null the other day I encountered 2 gates with more than 1-2 bubbles on grid with the gate - one which was literally bubbled for over 200km in every direction and the other had a line of bubbles to around 200km off the gate in the direction of the other gate in the system.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#22 - 2014-10-03 20:47:34 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Oli Robbo wrote:
Daoden wrote:
Bubbles are traps, traps are allowed in eve.

PS: you can shoot the anchorable bubbles btw if you really want to get rid of them rather then asking CCP to do that job for you


OK, so using your mindset, lets look at the average roaming gang.

<10 with what, 5k dps?
200,000 HP per bubble, times by lets say 45 (the amount -visible- in the first screenshot i linked).
You do the math, it would take the best part of an hour to get through that lot, with nothing to show for it at the end.

Im sure you mean other than costing your enemies half a billion ISK for no risk right?

Its true, T1 bubbles should probably cost 3-4 times what they do now in order to make bubble spam like this hurt the wallet a little more, but even so, damage to your opponent's economy uncontested IS something to show for it.

Would it help your little epeen out if they gave you killmails for destroying bubbles so your killboard could look all green?

When bubble material prices spiked accidentally (much sad) with either Kronos or Crius (I forget) I was happy. Exploit-level bubble spam is just that. Exploits to be reported and move on. Otherwise, I think bubble use is an acceptable strategy BUT they should cost more than they do now to hamper the "I'll throw 50+ bubbles out for virtually assured safety at low low low expense".

Raise the build cost on anchorable bubbles so that they aren't dropped with wild abandon and things will sort themselves out. I'd even happily shoot them at that point (killmail or not) because I'd know that someone was feeling the pinch at replacement costs.

That said OP: I'd say no to automagically clearing bubbles at downtime (for several reasons).
I'll also say that the idea regarding the faction anchorable bubbles cancelling nullification is a bad idea and completely breaks an intended game design feature (interdiction nullification) without any pilot interaction/presence at all.

I'm right behind you

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#23 - 2014-10-03 20:59:31 UTC
TL;DR

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Solecist Project
#24 - 2014-10-03 21:17:50 UTC
Regarding the visuals ...

CCP recently found out that metaballs exist, a cool visual effect that got discovered
around three decades ago and not only doesn't cost a lot of horsepower,
but also solves the issue of crappy looking, overlapping bubbles.


*kinks*

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#25 - 2014-10-03 21:29:21 UTC
I would like to see something new done with Bubbles. The new idea involves creating a small emitter type device that could be deployed in an asteroid belt or other location. When any ship comes within a certain range the device activates and traps the ship like a normal bubble does.
Oli Robbo
Entity.
#26 - 2014-10-04 17:29:02 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
TL;DR


TL:DR

It's no secret that in some cases bubbles are being deployed in such a way to abuse their intended use, which does not promote an active play-style, accountability and upsets the risk/reward ratio. The current petition system is in-effective at resolving the issue to do the time / effort required on both the user and CCP to the extent that hardly anyone reports the cases of extensive bubble spam.

I've posted a suggestion to a new mechanic to try and resolve this, some of the finer points can re tweaked to assist with cases such as r4pe-caging a POS, but the general idea is to removed anchored bubbles at server restart.



Example
Oli Robbo
Entity.
#27 - 2014-10-05 13:26:35 UTC
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#28 - 2014-10-23 13:35:32 UTC
"Other players should always be the greatest danger in un-secure space". A direct qoute from CCP. Having hellbubbled gates, along with using local chat as an intel-tool, is a counter to incoming dangers that do not require teamwork. Local is a horse that has been flogged to death hundreds of times during my time in EVE and I have no confidence in that ever getting fixed. Hellbubbles, however, is more recent and I hope might get adressed during the nullsec rebalance. I would like to go much further then the op and suggest the following:

1. Make anchorable bubbles one-shot items.

2. Give them a 2 hour lifespan.

404 - Image not found

Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-10-23 13:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
bubbles can be annoying, in certain cases when they made me butthurt I grabbed a bomber (+ a covert hauler full of ammo) and cleared off 30-40 large bubbles, 2 times.
The bear who tried to secure his ratting cave didnt bother to put them up for the 3rd time and quit/changed location at some point.

Bubbles in high numbers cost a decent amount of ISK but removing them doesnt cost virtually anything, besides of your time and dedication.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-10-24 14:59:31 UTC
Oli Robbo wrote:

TL:DR

It's no secret that in some cases bubbles are being deployed in such a way to abuse their intended use, which does not promote an active play-style, accountability and upsets the risk/reward ratio. The current petition system is in-effective at resolving the issue to do the time / effort required on both the user and CCP to the extent that hardly anyone reports the cases of extensive bubble spam.

I've posted a suggestion to a new mechanic to try and resolve this, some of the finer points can re tweaked to assist with cases such as r4pe-caging a POS, but the general idea is to removed anchored bubbles at server restart.



Example


If you hit that scenario, why wouldn't you

1. Find another route
2. Reship, fleet up, clear the bubbles
3. Send a ceptor through to see if it is actually a trap. If not, just slowboat through
Oli Robbo
Entity.
#31 - 2014-10-30 23:26:11 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Oli Robbo wrote:

TL:DR

It's no secret that in some cases bubbles are being deployed in such a way to abuse their intended use, which does not promote an active play-style, accountability and upsets the risk/reward ratio. The current petition system is in-effective at resolving the issue to do the time / effort required on both the user and CCP to the extent that hardly anyone reports the cases of extensive bubble spam.

I've posted a suggestion to a new mechanic to try and resolve this, some of the finer points can re tweaked to assist with cases such as r4pe-caging a POS, but the general idea is to removed anchored bubbles at server restart.



Example


If you hit that scenario, why wouldn't you

1. Find another route
2. Reship, fleet up, clear the bubbles
3. Send a ceptor through to see if it is actually a trap. If not, just slowboat through


Usually there's no other rout as they're dead end constellations, and when you roam donelands 80% of the time you can't reship as the closest dockable station is in gr eat wildlands.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#32 - 2014-10-31 09:32:10 UTC
I dislike bubbles and hate multi-bubbled gates. But downtime solutions are applied unevenly for different timezones. It would be better to just give them a shorter lifespan.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#33 - 2014-10-31 09:52:05 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Oli Robbo wrote:

TL:DR

It's no secret that in some cases bubbles are being deployed in such a way to abuse their intended use, which does not promote an active play-style, accountability and upsets the risk/reward ratio. The current petition system is in-effective at resolving the issue to do the time / effort required on both the user and CCP to the extent that hardly anyone reports the cases of extensive bubble spam.

I've posted a suggestion to a new mechanic to try and resolve this, some of the finer points can re tweaked to assist with cases such as r4pe-caging a POS, but the general idea is to removed anchored bubbles at server restart.



Example


If you hit that scenario, why wouldn't you

1. Find another route
2. Reship, fleet up, clear the bubbles
3. Send a ceptor through to see if it is actually a trap. If not, just slowboat through


All of theese "sugestions" are completely meaningless. Hellbubbles are there to give the ratters and miners enough time to pos up, not to prevent travel.

404 - Image not found

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#34 - 2014-10-31 10:23:44 UTC
if you dont like them, shoot them. they cost lots of ISK btw so you kill many ISK shooting them
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#35 - 2014-10-31 10:26:10 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What happened to bouncing off a celestial after spotting the bubble on dscan?


I doubt this is about the single drag-bubble on a gate, but about the bubblebunker, consisting of dozens of them and covering the complete sphere around a gate out to 100km in each direction. It's pretty lame to be able to hermetically seal a null-pocket.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-10-31 11:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
What happened to bouncing off a celestial after spotting the bubble on dscan?


I doubt this is about the single drag-bubble on a gate, but about the bubblebunker, consisting of dozens of them and covering the complete sphere around a gate out to 100km in each direction. It's pretty lame to be able to hermetically seal a null-pocket.



This is almost certainly correct, however it has been proposed that having rats blap them is the key - that way strategically placed bubbles - for example at POS are left well alone, as they should be.

I suppose their removal around gates only - and as discussed, the easiest lore fitting mech is to have the rats waste them.

Benefits:
People actively using the bubbles will splash the rats
Existing code can be used
It will probably have the side effect of rats shooting things like depots and MTUs - again pretty desirable
It leave strategic bubbles in off gate positions alone - if I want to seed a pos area with traps before an RF timer that comes out a half hour after downtime, this would kill that dead.

Drawback
Someone has to flip the switch
Rats perhaps would take a while to chew through things, something could be worked on there I think.
Ari Kelor
Frontier Explorations Inc.
#37 - 2014-10-31 16:55:05 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
if you dont like them, shoot them. they cost lots of ISK btw so you kill many ISK shooting them


Because we all know that the large nullsec coalitions care about isk. It's common knowledge that there are only 3 titans because they are so expensive. (sarcasm)

Upgrading the bubbles to be more like the new deployables makes sense considering the direction that anchorable structures are going and active gameplay is being encouraged over passive roadbumps like hellcamps. Giving variation to the bubbles range and time limit based on size and tech level would be the best way to approach this. Ranges from 2-6 hours would probably be the best, but I'm not a game designer, I'll leave that to CCP. You could also introduce variants where you can get some that last for much longer but have very little EHP so they are easily cleared.

Assigning a time limit will encourage more active gameplay from the dead-end ratters and miners. Nullsec needs to have the safety removed from it, and this will be a great first step towards that direction.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-10-31 17:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Deployable bubbles should just be removed, HICs and Interiction Spheres should be the source of mass warp disruption.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#39 - 2014-10-31 17:57:14 UTC
I like the idea of rats shooting them or them having some kind of timer. Clearing at downtime would be convenient to implement for the developers but would be unfair to multiple timezones. You could also have the timers accelerate if there are a lot of bubbles near each other. That way a lone drag bubble or single large on a gate would persist longer but these massive blobs would fade quicker

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-10-31 18:42:22 UTC
Have them require fuel to function, like a POS. No fuel, no bubble. This allows the bubbles to be used, but at a cost. I think this is in step with the Eve philosophy of "nothing for free". If the deployer allows it to run out of fuel then the bubble shuts down and unanchors itself, allowing anyone passer-by to avail himself of a freebie.

Another possibility is to make the bubble hackable; the larger the bubble the higher the hacking skill required. Once hacked the bubble shuts down and unanchors, giving the hacker a freebie.

Neither suggestion destroys the functionality of the bubble, merely ensuring the deployer doesn't get a no-cost, low-risk defence.

Idiot warning: no-cost refers to maintaining it.
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