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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#401 - 2014-10-31 02:25:57 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous, what stops you from joining a low/null corp and awoxing them there? Just a curiosity.


I would guess fear is his problem with that.

Mr Epeen Cool
Nevil Oscillator
#402 - 2014-10-31 02:32:09 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous, what stops you from joining a low/null corp and awoxing them there? Just a curiosity.


The 'Danger Quick Sand' signs, maybe

Awoxing is a rule that a newbie will probably not know about.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#403 - 2014-10-31 02:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
All I personally know is that when I came into EVE, I joined a mission running corp and were told all these things that were untrue about lw and null. If it wasn't for CCP introducing Faction Warfare, I'd have quit because based on bad information I was too afraid to venture outside of high sec.

My experience is not unique. I've trained more than a few guys back when I was in Atlas and IT and then Raiden who would say "man, can't belvie I didn't do this sooner".

I've come to realize that goons were doing it right, quickly ejecting their new players from high sec before they could become brainwashed lol. I now encourage new players to get the hell out of high sec as soon as possible, and avoid pve only high sec corps if they don't stay with my group.
Wait, so you joined EVE, would have quit, but CCP made a change making it easier for you to get into player interactive content, which encouraged you to stay. That's exactly what this suggestion is to do too.


The change CCP made was pro-pvp in a pvp game, pro-conflict in a game about conflcit, pro-destruction inn a game where 'churn' is the fuel of commerce. This idea is the exact opposite, which is exactly why it's bad. With this, fewer people will bother to awox in high sec, making for a more peaceful environment, which is great in real life but sucks in a video game.


The people who basically lied to me (meaning well, but still lying) would be in favor of this change (if any still played). We know what CCP is trying to do, we can also see that they are wrong. We've had years of these "improvements" (making EVE safer and yet the flood of subs from people who were supposed to stay "if only it were safer/had lower barriers" hasn't materialized.

How long will CCP and people like you cling to this failed ideology before you admit "hey, i guess making the game safer doesn't work to retain people after all"?

Lower barriers simply cheapens an experience, folks like me came to EVE when the barries were higher, making surviving this long an accomplishment with value. Most of the things you seem to advocatewould deny players that sense of accomplishment (ironically hurting player retention).
Nevil Oscillator
#404 - 2014-10-31 02:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
I'm honestly not bothered either way about it. +0

I think I will leave that decision entirely to CCP for them to decide if it is reduceing new players.
Anthar Peva
Doomheim
#405 - 2014-10-31 03:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Peva
ll Kuray ll wrote:
I think you take on a different perspective if you pay with real money to play the game.
I pay with real money. I would have no issue getting ganked or awoxed. It's more interesting than mining 24/7 and I might get some good discussion with the person about tactics.
Krusty the Klown wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:


Learn to be inventive with your spying and awoxing. Learn to do it by sucking them into low sec, into duels for 'fit testing'. Adapt. Don't just sit there and cry because CCP are removing an easy mode for you. And awoxing is Easy Mode. No API check will catch a grown from scratch Alt.


I'm sorry, who the **** are you to tell anyone to "adapt or die"? You're a sniveling little whingey ***** who's hiding behind CCP's skirt and chanting for a safer EVE, you loser ******* carebear.


You seem highly upset over some internet pixel spaceship rule changes. Why don't you take a break, go for a walk or something, remember it's just a game and come back refreshed?
Isn't that.. What carebear killers say to carebears when they whine..?


As the other people have said, there's now no reason for awoxers to join (non specialized) corps other than getting into comms/corp chat to get better/more tears, because the only reason to join was to be free engage (this only includes pvp awoxers, not thieves or w/e).
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#406 - 2014-10-31 03:56:47 UTC
Awoxing is possible because CCP didn't want your own corpmates to trigger CONCORD by being hit accidentally with missiles.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#407 - 2014-10-31 04:47:07 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
I have actually written a full guide on how to find a corp, and with the help of other players the guide has actually managed to get in a lot of information that helps new players avoid the regular traps they might encounter when joining a corp. If players can do this, im sure that a few CCP employees and CSM could manage to do it and add it into the game so that people could actually find the information.


Yes, she has, and I've pointed people to it in the Help channel on several occasions. I do not think this is as good an idea as you folks at CCP do. I have never AWOXed (and likely never will), but I defend the right for others to do so. A safer highsec makes for a weaker playerbase.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#408 - 2014-10-31 05:15:48 UTC
What needs to be fixed is the "I can jump corps to avoid war" loophole. Wars should at least follow the pilot for the current term of the war. Currently AWOX and suicide ganking are the only two forms of non consensual PVP in highsec that I can think of. If I missed any please let me know. If some have their way Eve will have a PVP flag system much like another popular MMO where you can just turn it off and be safe.
Dave Stark
#409 - 2014-10-31 06:28:29 UTC
IIshira wrote:
What needs to be fixed is the "I can jump corps to avoid war" loophole. Wars should at least follow the pilot for the current term of the war. Currently AWOX and suicide ganking are the only two forms of non consensual PVP in highsec that I can think of. If I missed any please let me know. If some have their way Eve will have a PVP flag system much like another popular MMO where you can just turn it off and be safe.



a better fix would be to make corps worth being in, and fighting for, rather than locking people in to them during wardecs.
Princess Scarlett
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#410 - 2014-10-31 06:43:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


The change CCP made was pro-pvp in a pvp game, pro-conflict in a game about conflcit, pro-destruction inn a game where 'churn' is the fuel of commerce. This idea is the exact opposite, which is exactly why it's bad. With this, fewer people will bother to awox in high sec, making for a more peaceful environment, which is great in real life but sucks in a video game.

.



EVE Is not a PVP game and never was. check the total kill stats.
For every pvp kill there are 400 pve kills.
You PvP related illusions and whining do not matter in the big picture.

Benjamin Franklin will always win.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#411 - 2014-10-31 06:50:51 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

a better fix would be to make corps worth being in, and fighting for, rather than locking people in to them during wardecs.

Removing awoxing is part of that process. If you don't have to be paranoid of your own corp mates more than of other people, corps start being easier to be in.
Right now it's easier to shoot your own corp than other people, that's just silly.
If corp theft is much harder with good roles control, no easy awoxing (still suicide ganking etc), and the kick queue they are introducing, it's easier to make it harder to avoid wardecs, and to give corps things worth fighting for.
Princess Scarlett
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#412 - 2014-10-31 06:51:06 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Persifonne wrote:
When will hisec become pvp free (except for duels and wardecs). Anyone activating weapons on player ship that you arent wardecced to, isnt flashy red or in a duel with will get concorded. Only pvp in lowsec null and wh. This day is coming. It is closer than we think.


I'm ready to unsub my accounts basically any time at this point.

No point in staying subbed... once EVE goes themepark it'll go the way of all the other themepark MMOs.


please send me your assets before you unsub. I will enjoy my highsec more without you. Especially without crazy awox loophole letting you shoot someone without concord intervention.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#413 - 2014-10-31 06:53:15 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Personally I think awoxxing never made much sense. How does it really benefit the game?



It depends what you're awoxing. It's used in the meta game.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#414 - 2014-10-31 07:02:06 UTC
Princess Scarlett wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


The change CCP made was pro-pvp in a pvp game, pro-conflict in a game about conflcit, pro-destruction inn a game where 'churn' is the fuel of commerce. This idea is the exact opposite, which is exactly why it's bad. With this, fewer people will bother to awox in high sec, making for a more peaceful environment, which is great in real life but sucks in a video game.

.



EVE Is not a PVP game and never was. check the total kill stats.
For every pvp kill there are 400 pve kills.
You PvP related illusions and whining do not matter in the big picture.

Benjamin Franklin will always win.

at any point, aside from being docked and not doing anything, can you avoid the competition that other players create for you? From day one you have felt the effects of other players actions in their constant work to achieve their goals. Its impossible to avoid this competitive interaction.

So no. Eve is not a PVE game. Otherwise it would have single player mode.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#415 - 2014-10-31 07:03:27 UTC
Princess Scarlett wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


The change CCP made was pro-pvp in a pvp game, pro-conflict in a game about conflcit, pro-destruction inn a game where 'churn' is the fuel of commerce. This idea is the exact opposite, which is exactly why it's bad. With this, fewer people will bother to awox in high sec, making for a more peaceful environment, which is great in real life but sucks in a video game.

.



EVE Is not a PVP game and never was. check the total kill stats.
For every pvp kill there are 400 pve kills.
You PvP related illusions and whining do not matter in the big picture.

Benjamin Franklin will always win.


Eve is entirely a PvP game. It is a sandbox where practically everything you do is in direct or indirect competition with other players. Your mined ore reduces the value of my mined ore. Your ISK from bounties reduces the value of everyone's ISK. Direct ship combat between players is only one small part of this complex universe where every player's actions can/do influence everyone else.

Eve cannot work if everyone only does PvE all day - destruction of player assets is essential to keep the economy rolling. Why is CCP deciding to remove a rarely used but interesting mechanic that drives conflict, and ends up with the destruction of player ships? It seems to go not only against the marketing of new Eden as a dangerous place, but against the idea of giving more tools to players to drive conflict and make stories that CCP Seagull has been going on about. Are those not welcome in highsec anymore?

If so, then just nerf highsec income to the ground and make it 100% safe and get this over with. Let it be a place for newbies.You can't have a functioning sandbox economy with the still very lucrative, but completely safe area like we are approaching with each and every nerf to highsec risk.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Black Pedro
Mine.
#416 - 2014-10-31 07:12:12 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

a better fix would be to make corps worth being in, and fighting for, rather than locking people in to them during wardecs.

Removing awoxing is part of that process. If you don't have to be paranoid of your own corp mates more than of other people, corps start being easier to be in.
Right now it's easier to shoot your own corp than other people, that's just silly.
If corp theft is much harder with good roles control, no easy awoxing (still suicide ganking etc), and the kick queue they are introducing, it's easier to make it harder to avoid wardecs, and to give corps things worth fighting for.

If this is true than I actually support this change. Getting people out of NPC corps and into player corps that can be meaningfully wardecced (that is no longer drop/fold corp) would be a great thing and result in a net increase of conflict for highsec.

But from what I am hearing that is not the case. It looks like a misguided "save the newbie" play that will just make highsec more slightly more safe.

There is already the corp kick queue coming up which is a nerf to awoxing. Save this change to be part of a package of overhauls to the corporation mechanics that will get players into wardeccable player corps - nerfs/changes to being in NPC corps, better role management to reduce risks from new corp members etc.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#417 - 2014-10-31 07:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Black Pedro wrote:
Eve is entirely a PvP game. It is a sandbox where practically everything you do is in direct or indirect competition with other players.


At least you got that right.
Miners compete with other miners, TRADERS compete with other TRADERS without leaving the station.

So YES EvE is total PvP.
But NO EvE is NOT shooting everone at everyone.
That is what will keep EvE far above Elite: A real market with real "demand" and "real" resources.

Yoo cry about a minor change in corp managment, but that is nothing.

Wanna shoot? go where fights are. lowsec and nullsec.

just 20 pages, not really a drama.
Only for a certain small group.

@DJamesPedro:
Your oppininon doesn't count more than mine or everyones else. No matter how many alts you have and who they are. Blink

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Prince Kobol
#418 - 2014-10-31 07:20:57 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
a nice blingy ship for lvl 5 missions in low


Do you even play this game? No one actually does this, even total newbies.



Some would see that as a challenge...or others will just wilt to the challenge.

And in my brief stint being a F1 monkey I saw a corp who use to run them on the regular.

Not sure where you get no one runs them.

But you wouldn't know...you aren't willing to leave hi-sec.



I am pretty sure he is not saying people don't run level 5's, what he is saying is that those who do, do not use blingy ships.

I run level 5's on a alt and I use a ship that is worth about 500 mil.
Prince Kobol
#419 - 2014-10-31 07:23:42 UTC
Okay.. lets say CCP remove the ability to awox but new players are still leaving in large numbers and players are still staying in NPC Corps.

What next?

Reimburses Corp thefts? Removing War Dec's ? Banning Ganking ?

I mean are their people who truly believe that stopping the ability to awox is really going to make people stay in HS Corps and not leave Eve?
Prince Kobol
#420 - 2014-10-31 07:25:37 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

a better fix would be to make corps worth being in, and fighting for, rather than locking people in to them during wardecs.

Removing awoxing is part of that process. If you don't have to be paranoid of your own corp mates more than of other people, corps start being easier to be in.
Right now it's easier to shoot your own corp than other people, that's just silly.
If corp theft is much harder with good roles control, no easy awoxing (still suicide ganking etc), and the kick queue they are introducing, it's easier to make it harder to avoid wardecs, and to give corps things worth fighting for.


All things will have no effect because the difference between being in a NPC Corp and a Player Corp HS is minuscule.

Until CCP either nerf the crap out of NPC Corps or give real benefits to being in a HS Corp, very little will change.