EVE Information Portal

If harder means better what's the difference? Ppl will loot only high end cans even without cargo scanner. It's still cherrypicking. Now it's lottery, high end may have treasuries or not. There shouldn't be 100% loot in high end can - this would cause even bigger crash to the market and exploration.
Example: I've done 6 relics yesterday. Only one "ruins" per whole 6 sites contained worthable loot - 24mil, rest was crap (and i mean crap, like 30k Isk loot), yet i looted almost 100mil (i didn't took cargo scanner so i hacked all cans). It tooked more time, i traveled trough 3 regions, still earn decent cash.


Try scanning 9 systems pipe. What is this? XV century cartography? Map and pencil?

Nice! here's hoping for more fluidity as more explorers begin to run data sites instead of focussing purely on relics.

No it's not. You force ppl to do sites in can difficulty order. I'm an explorer not soldier in Kaiser's Wilhelm army. Even so 100% loot in harderst would crash market.
Take a crystal quarry for example. 7 cans, 3 of them are highest ("ruins"). Cherrypicker would destroy "lower" cans and hack "good" ones. Sure we won't see cherrypicked sites but with 100% loot market would crash.

What we could have: no possibility to 100% drop (we have it now) and no scanability (we may have it). So we must hack to see what's inside AND we could have no clue how hard is the can we currently want to hack (there would be no label on overview, no "ruin", "remain" etc.). So like in above example, crystal quarry could have 7 cans without labels (there will be 3 ruins, 3 remains, and 1 rubble ofc but we would just see 7 same cans on overview, visual is not the ID). You want the loot? Go find it. Cherrypicking solved.

There was a devblog how they see exploration (few years ago). It started with odyssey and going into good direction, just need a bit polishing (a bit more in few places).

Agree. We could use some randomize system for cans location on site grid or randomize content of the cans within current locations.
for example can is looking like databank but content and defensive systems are like in com tower. You'll never now until you start hacking (btw this may need to change hacking grid too...).
I'm no programmer i have no idea how much effort/time this would need.
Btw randomize cans location woulde be really great change. I have flypath for the sites already, it's becoming mechanical. Grind.

Good for you, most of the explorers do see the problem here, and i mean explorers not " i do few sites at saturday because i'm bored".


Problem is, you want a steady income with wrong part of the game. Percenteges? Really? Cubic meters? Hardest can are not what you describe - hard to do. It's just matter of time, few seconds more on grid + luck. Can be done even in T1 frig with T1 module. Show me activity that may grant such income with so few skills and cheap equipment + time spend. What the fun of openning "hardest" just to see the most value items being flodded the market. Because what you described would obviously destroyed it and loot tables (have you been here after odyssey? it was cataclysm). Adding loot helps as much as printing more money just because we poor.
You want simple, predictable grind.
Ruins contained carbon? Fubar. Better luck next time.Sites in null may give you 10 to 50 mil + ISK from BPCs, depends on luck. one day you'll loot 20 mil, the other 300mil. Hardest system core should indicate what might be not what should be inside. It's luck based activity. Unpredictable (it should be at least).
Exploration has many flaws, carbon in hardest cans is not the issiue here.

Let's agree to disagree.
I'm happy with exploration in general, cherrypicked sites are part of the game (sometimes you get the shaft), the only thing I'm not happy with is the total randomization making the difference between a harder can and an easier can useless. Why even have various can difficulties, in this case? As it is right now, there's no point to them.

Good for you if you can do a ruin with T1+T1, you're an expert. As such, most people aren't, and they represent a majority. I'm also seeing things from their perspective and try to help make the game tailored for them too, not just the few "31337" d00ds.

Make can unscanable. The worst thing about cherry picked sites is they don't despawn and show up else where and thats just annoying.

And yes its possible to run the hardest site with lv1 skill in a t1 ship with t1 mod, it is just luck that won't last long. Run 100 cans and see how many you do successfully at that level of skill.

The module is what matters t1 ship t2 mod is better in my opinion than t2 ship and t1 mod. Plus implants make more than the difference for than t1-t2 ship does.

I've argued in the past that cherrypicking and leaving an unfinished site can be used as an "offensive action" to deny an opponent ISK, by keeping new sites from respawning via leaving a can up. This is especially true if you are daytripping and doing sites in hostile space.

The point I think is, right now there is no risk or penalty for doing this - you can cargo scan the can, and just leave it if it's empty. There's also nothing stopping lazy blues from picking the most expensive can, and leaving the rest. Popping empty cans to make the site despawn is more of a courtesy when you're doing it around your own space.

If we remove the ability to cargo scan, and rebalance the loot slightly across the site (I like the 60/40 ratio mentioned above), then it's still possible for you to leave cans, but you have to give up on potential unknown loot to do it.

Also if someone could correct me - I thought there was a change made in the last few patches, that the exploration sites would despawn faster once they were warped to, and create new ones if they weren't completed - I can't seem to find a change discussion on that :citation needed:

Sorry was not my intention. I'm just alergic to "give me moar loot". You said:

Have you consider pvper perspective and cargo scanner ability? Because there's little to non. Players supposed to be rats on sites, how camper can catch anything with 70 km range module? Its not all about loot and how poor explorers are with it. This is much more complex.
I love to have opportunity to do things differently in this game but with cargo scanning i'm saying: no, not a good thing, makes things way too easy.


Contradiction. if i loot 12 mil from ruins in relic site i will exactly know what left in remaing cans (because 60/40 rule, or whatever it would be).

Guys you don't see the point with loot here. It's a drops, just like in missions. You may be lucky with loot and salvage or not. I'm looting from 10 to 25 mil from AE. Same applay here. Example from tonight:
i did 3 sites,
-first started lame (fist can: carbon) but then on second can loot fairy was generous (27 mil!!!) + some loot from lowers;
-second 3 cans with splendid loot plus some lower ISK but still worth lower level cans, so almost 50 mil;
-third completly failure not even 10 mil.

Edit: didn't found the link but found some notes how exploration should look like, one of it was (2011):

"Chance-based income

Particularly for more mystery-oriented exploration, but to a lesser extent for the other sort as well, income should be more hit-and-miss - large periods of relatively low income can be balanced out with the occasional jackpot. This provides more possible variations in gameplay motivation without ruining exploration's financial competitiveness, and works thematically and in terms of the sort of players we want to attract with "exploration."

Do we know how long these sites will hang around in WH space before they despawn ?

Do the WH exploration sites count towards the pool of sites scattered around Null - i.e. will there be fewer in Null because they now appear in WH Space